Rugby league international played 'in front of a handful of people'

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Ipinwigan
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Re: Rugby league international played 'in front of a handful of people'

Post by Ipinwigan »

Mike wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 2:13 pm
Ipinwigan wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:43 am
archiekeith wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:15 am

I fully understand your frustration but the above topic title illustrates the fact that there is little demand for our game both domestically and Internationally The RFL cannot manufacture a demand. They simply don't have the financial wherewithal to sustain our game Internationally or nationally. That's the fact of the matter
That's why astute business men need to drive it forwards.
Are IMG not astute business people? Additionally, unlike the individual club owners they are 100% motivated by growing the game as that's how they get paid. They aren't motivated by winning everything as the club owners are. I guess you're perceiving that progress is too slow - which for me is the main problem in my eyes, growth will be gradual over years and decades not overnight no matter who's controlling the game. Look at the attendances at the start of this season, they were well up. That's something to build on, and hopefully it will eventually reach th international game and the cup final. But not next year.
They might well be an astute business, but they appear to be moving at glacial speed.
The only known fact is that they have come up with a grading system, that anyone with any understanding of RL and the clubs could have come to the same conclusions.
No apparent marketing strategy to move the game forwards and I think in most people's opinion have not done anything to improve things.
They are a complete waste of money, in my opinion.
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Mike
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Re: Rugby league international played 'in front of a handful of people'

Post by Mike »

Ipinwigan wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 5:53 pm
Mike wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 2:13 pm
Ipinwigan wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:43 am

That's why astute business men need to drive it forwards.
Are IMG not astute business people? Additionally, unlike the individual club owners they are 100% motivated by growing the game as that's how they get paid. They aren't motivated by winning everything as the club owners are. I guess you're perceiving that progress is too slow - which for me is the main problem in my eyes, growth will be gradual over years and decades not overnight no matter who's controlling the game. Look at the attendances at the start of this season, they were well up. That's something to build on, and hopefully it will eventually reach th international game and the cup final. But not next year.
They might well be an astute business, but they appear to be moving at glacial speed.
The only known fact is that they have come up with a grading system, that anyone with any understanding of RL and the clubs could have come to the same conclusions.
No apparent marketing strategy to move the game forwards and I think in most people's opinion have not done anything to improve things.
They are a complete waste of money, in my opinion.
TV deal?

Wanted to reformulate Magic because it detracts from the cup but were blocked by the clubs (who you say would be doing a much better job even though they ran the SL organisation for a few decades until very recently).

If you think things can change hugely overnight, or even in a couple of seasons - that's just setting everything up for failure IMO.
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Ipinwigan
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Re: Rugby league international played 'in front of a handful of people'

Post by Ipinwigan »

Mike wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 6:00 pm
Ipinwigan wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 5:53 pm
Mike wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 2:13 pm

Are IMG not astute business people? Additionally, unlike the individual club owners they are 100% motivated by growing the game as that's how they get paid. They aren't motivated by winning everything as the club owners are. I guess you're perceiving that progress is too slow - which for me is the main problem in my eyes, growth will be gradual over years and decades not overnight no matter who's controlling the game. Look at the attendances at the start of this season, they were well up. That's something to build on, and hopefully it will eventually reach th international game and the cup final. But not next year.
They might well be an astute business, but they appear to be moving at glacial speed.
The only known fact is that they have come up with a grading system, that anyone with any understanding of RL and the clubs could have come to the same conclusions.
No apparent marketing strategy to move the game forwards and I think in most people's opinion have not done anything to improve things.
They are a complete waste of money, in my opinion.
TV deal?

Wanted to reformulate Magic because it detracts from the cup but were blocked by the clubs (who you say would be doing a much better job even though they ran the SL organisation for a few decades until very recently).

If you think things can change hugely overnight, or even in a couple of seasons - that's just setting everything up for failure IMO.
TV deal?
What a reduced price contract from Sky and the BBC?
Clubs can't even increase the salary cap to try and retain players, when the Aussies come a calling. Not very progressive.
Trying to kill off Magic Weekend isn't exactly proactive, as far as I am concerned
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Mike
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Re: Rugby league international played 'in front of a handful of people'

Post by Mike »

Ipinwigan wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 6:18 pm
Mike wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 6:00 pm
Ipinwigan wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 5:53 pm

They might well be an astute business, but they appear to be moving at glacial speed.
The only known fact is that they have come up with a grading system, that anyone with any understanding of RL and the clubs could have come to the same conclusions.
No apparent marketing strategy to move the game forwards and I think in most people's opinion have not done anything to improve things.
They are a complete waste of money, in my opinion.
TV deal?

Wanted to reformulate Magic because it detracts from the cup but were blocked by the clubs (who you say would be doing a much better job even though they ran the SL organisation for a few decades until very recently).

If you think things can change hugely overnight, or even in a couple of seasons - that's just setting everything up for failure IMO.
TV deal?
What a reduced price contract from Sky and the BBC?
Clubs can't even increase the salary cap to try and retain players, when the Aussies come a calling. Not very progressive.
Trying to kill off Magic Weekend isn't exactly proactive, as far as I am concerned
Your convinced if we put Dansen in charge of the whole league he'd both want to do that, and be able to get a better TV deal for example.

Its odd, because IMO you're arguing for the same setup as we have now with no vetos from clubs, but replacing IMG less than one tenth of the way through their contract. I wonder how long you'd give him to decide what the problems were and how to solve them. 2 weeks? :o
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Ipinwigan
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Re: Rugby league international played 'in front of a handful of people'

Post by Ipinwigan »

Mike wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:54 pm
Ipinwigan wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 6:18 pm
Mike wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 6:00 pm

TV deal?

Wanted to reformulate Magic because it detracts from the cup but were blocked by the clubs (who you say would be doing a much better job even though they ran the SL organisation for a few decades until very recently).

If you think things can change hugely overnight, or even in a couple of seasons - that's just setting everything up for failure IMO.
TV deal?
What a reduced price contract from Sky and the BBC?
Clubs can't even increase the salary cap to try and retain players, when the Aussies come a calling. Not very progressive.
Trying to kill off Magic Weekend isn't exactly proactive, as far as I am concerned
Your convinced if we put Dansen in charge of the whole league he'd both want to do that, and be able to get a better TV deal for example.

Its odd, because IMO you're arguing for the same setup as we have now with no vetos from clubs, but replacing IMG less than one tenth of the way through their contract. I wonder how long you'd give him to decide what the problems were and how to solve them. 2 weeks? :o
I would imagine that he and the likes would do a damn better job than the current failing systems.
What exactly have IMG done for the game so far that has made any improvements?
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Mike
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Re: Rugby league international played 'in front of a handful of people'

Post by Mike »

Ipinwigan wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:18 pm
Mike wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:54 pm
Ipinwigan wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 6:18 pm

TV deal?
What a reduced price contract from Sky and the BBC?
Clubs can't even increase the salary cap to try and retain players, when the Aussies come a calling. Not very progressive.
Trying to kill off Magic Weekend isn't exactly proactive, as far as I am concerned
Your convinced if we put Dansen in charge of the whole league he'd both want to do that, and be able to get a better TV deal for example.

Its odd, because IMO you're arguing for the same setup as we have now with no vetos from clubs, but replacing IMG less than one tenth of the way through their contract. I wonder how long you'd give him to decide what the problems were and how to solve them. 2 weeks? :o
I would imagine that he and the likes would do a damn better job than the current failing systems.
What exactly have IMG done for the game so far that has made any improvements?
Again, I see the TV deal as a big positive in terms of the image of the game. You are disappointed that the cash value is lower, but you can't magic more money from the top business people that run aSKY without justification. Grow the game first, then the money comes, not the other way around.

My opinion is that it will take time to see any significant changes but I think the games on the right track again. There was a buzz about the start of the season, not just at Wigan. We had league matches selling out for the first time in I don't know when. Give it time. IMG need time to lay their groundwork, and let the changes take effect slowly.

In my experience, if you're faced with a problem and you can't think of a reasonable solution, then neither can "top business people". They're not better than you (in fact in some cases they've failed uo right to the top). The solution lies in raising club standards, improving targeted marketing, slowly building new markets and growing existing one without going over what the game can afford.

The only problem I see with the IMG setup is that they are motivated over too short of a timescale. I believe that's what's behind the lack of academy points in the grading and the current push for a few more overseas players. 10 years isn't enough to make it worth their while to promote academy standards, which is a shame. The RFL should have insisted that went in. They are the only ones that have a longer term perspective.
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Ipinwigan
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Re: Rugby league international played 'in front of a handful of people'

Post by Ipinwigan »

Mike wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 1:17 am
Ipinwigan wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:18 pm
Mike wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:54 pm

Your convinced if we put Dansen in charge of the whole league he'd both want to do that, and be able to get a better TV deal for example.

Its odd, because IMO you're arguing for the same setup as we have now with no vetos from clubs, but replacing IMG less than one tenth of the way through their contract. I wonder how long you'd give him to decide what the problems were and how to solve them. 2 weeks? :o
I would imagine that he and the likes would do a damn better job than the current failing systems.
What exactly have IMG done for the game so far that has made any improvements?
Again, I see the TV deal as a big positive in terms of the image of the game. You are disappointed that the cash value is lower, but you can't magic more money from the top business people that run aSKY without justification. Grow the game first, then the money comes, not the other way around.

My opinion is that it will take time to see any significant changes but I think the games on the right track again. There was a buzz about the start of the season, not just at Wigan. We had league matches selling out for the first time in I don't know when. Give it time. IMG need time to lay their groundwork, and let the changes take effect slowly.

In my experience, if you're faced with a problem and you can't think of a reasonable solution, then neither can "top business people". They're not better than you (in fact in some cases they've failed uo right to the top). The solution lies in raising club standards, improving targeted marketing, slowly building new markets and growing existing one without going over what the game can afford.

The only problem I see with the IMG setup is that they are motivated over too short of a timescale. I believe that's what's behind the lack of academy points in the grading and the current push for a few more overseas players. 10 years isn't enough to make it worth their while to promote academy standards, which is a shame. The RFL should have insisted that went in. They are the only ones that have a longer term perspective.
I bow to your superior knowledge, under IMG everything will go from strength to strength and the game will be where it deserves to be 🤔
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Mike
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Re: Rugby league international played 'in front of a handful of people'

Post by Mike »

Ipinwigan wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 6:50 am
Mike wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 1:17 am
Ipinwigan wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:18 pm

I would imagine that he and the likes would do a damn better job than the current failing systems.
What exactly have IMG done for the game so far that has made any improvements?
Again, I see the TV deal as a big positive in terms of the image of the game. You are disappointed that the cash value is lower, but you can't magic more money from the top business people that run aSKY without justification. Grow the game first, then the money comes, not the other way around.

My opinion is that it will take time to see any significant changes but I think the games on the right track again. There was a buzz about the start of the season, not just at Wigan. We had league matches selling out for the first time in I don't know when. Give it time. IMG need time to lay their groundwork, and let the changes take effect slowly.

In my experience, if you're faced with a problem and you can't think of a reasonable solution, then neither can "top business people". They're not better than you (in fact in some cases they've failed uo right to the top). The solution lies in raising club standards, improving targeted marketing, slowly building new markets and growing existing one without going over what the game can afford.

The only problem I see with the IMG setup is that they are motivated over too short of a timescale. I believe that's what's behind the lack of academy points in the grading and the current push for a few more overseas players. 10 years isn't enough to make it worth their while to promote academy standards, which is a shame. The RFL should have insisted that went in. They are the only ones that have a longer term perspective.
I bow to your superior knowledge, under IMG everything will go from strength to strength and the game will be where it deserves to be 🤔
I don't *know* it will. I just know that it will take 5-10 years to find out. I think you expect a turnaround - something like doubling crowds, cancelling the TV deal and getting twice as much, a sold out CC final, meaningful and organized international calendar - is possible in a year or two? That's unrealistic IMO. Noone can achieve that, not Dansen not IMG not Hearn.
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Re: Rugby league international played 'in front of a handful of people'

Post by Wigan_forever1985 »

I do think a key challenge though is we are still looking at the game through club and sport levels and rugby leagues problems will not be solved by this.

We need to stop treating the sport as the product - its not - the product has to be the players. That is what draws neutrals in - if you want to bring crowds in virtual and physical you need to give them a story to follow.

Rugby League is a Northern sport so obviously you dont have to do much for someone to support Wigan from the town, but if you want to grow fanbases give people a story or a person to follow. Sports that are more niche need that - look what Luke Littler has done for Darts, looks what Ronnie O'sulivan does for snooker or Andy Murray did for Tennis.

We need to promote the players build platforms in which they can become the story and the draw. Once people are in the game is a good enough product to hold focus but we need to inject personality back into Rugby League
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Re: Rugby league international played 'in front of a handful of people'

Post by Wigan_forever1985 »

Maybe a Netflix series?

How many neutrals has drive to survive brought to F1
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