IMG Gradings confirmed

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josie andrews
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Re: IMG Gradings confirmed

Post by josie andrews »

Caboosegg wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:59 pm https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/ch ... rre-reason

So while this is witness I do have so.e questions for other clubs

Leighs parking is abysmal have they been allowed to include leigh easts parking and the sport centres car parking which are not stadium parking.

Are Cas using glasshoughtons parking as again it's appalling.
So is Leeds & Wakefield but the report isn’t about parking for fans home or away but for media.
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Re: IMG Gradings confirmed

Post by nathan_rugby »

josie andrews wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:08 pm
Caboosegg wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:59 pm https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/ch ... rre-reason

So while this is witness I do have so.e questions for other clubs

Leighs parking is abysmal have they been allowed to include leigh easts parking and the sport centres car parking which are not stadium parking.

Are Cas using glasshoughtons parking as again it's appalling.
So is Leeds & Wakefield but the report isn’t about parking for fans home or away but for media.
I don't understand what they are complaining about.

IMG have set the criteria and they didn't meet it.

You can disagree with the criteria and weightings, but cannot really moan about the results unless there are legitimate mistakes.
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Mike
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Re: IMG Gradings confirmed

Post by Mike »

I hadn't realized how unstable this new system actually is. I had been under the impression that grade As were guaranteed a spot in SL this time and the ln the best grade Bs and that would be fixed for a period of time. Not sure why I thought that TBH.

It seems we won't know the make up of the league until well after the season and several clubs could move around. The scores don't seem to allow that right now, but assuming the 10-14th pack tightened up then no one would be able to plan beyond the next season.

Seems like that side of things has not been thought out.
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the pieman
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Re: IMG Gradings confirmed

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Mike wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:49 am I hadn't realized how unstable this new system actually is. I had been under the impression that grade As were guaranteed a spot in SL this time and the ln the best grade Bs and that would be fixed for a period of time. Not sure why I thought that TBH.

It seems we won't know the make up of the league until well after the season and several clubs could move around. The scores don't seem to allow that right now, but assuming the 10-14th pack tightened up then no one would be able to plan beyond the next season.

Seems like that side of things has not been thought out.
i quite like the idea of the jeopardy (certainly short term) in regards to the gradings. I've made my view quite clear that Cas and Wakey are NOT grade A clubs, despite them scoring / meeting / manipulating the criteria to become A. They have done nothing for 20+ years, then all of a sudden in 12-18 months miraculously decide to make improvements at their respective grounds and are conveniently put into SL, whilst other clubs have done far more in the past and have been overlooked (see DB recent post about how its been manipulated)

so for me, this is the start of a process, not the end. The criteria needs to be reviewed constantly (maybe not changed every year) as i'm sure there are things we will all agree on in regards to the criteria whether currently included or not. The element about the ground / fan experience, can only change over time as technologies advance and change, so the criteria / gradings cannot be static. Someone has posted a link in relation to a newspaper article about the merger of RU and RL. The big thing i took from that is that the younger generation are more interested in league as it is faster / easier to understand, so they arent bothered about watching endless scrum resets etc in union. So we need to be targetting that generation, with social media feeds, big hits, tries etc

my view is that we cant let clubs rest on their laurels hence the above comment. For example, the target capacity needs to be significantly increased from 7.5k to 15k as some clubs will do nothing to try and improve or increase capacity over and above that. Now that may be their limit, but then score them appropriately. One of my current arguments is that Cas / Wakey score the same if not better than Wigan, Leeds, Hull because of how the bigger clubs with ambition, get marked down for %age utilisation, so they get top score as the ground holds 7.5k, their average just happens to be around or below that so quite high 90%+ utilisation, but Wigan with 15k v 25k, only get 60% utilisation for a far better stadium / experience etc (note i'm not taking into account burgers stands / ale etc in this part)

the aim has to be to improve the game overall, and i've no issue with clubs striving to get Grade A, just score them appropriately, and if they arent at the min standard, then they dont make Grade A but at least they should know what they need to do, to attain A standard
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Re: IMG Gradings confirmed

Post by Mike »

How much does utilisation actually count for? 0.25 of a point or something. We should be increasing the top scoring attendance to 10K over the next 3-4 years IMO.

And I'd say to the complaint that cas and Wakefield don't deserve to be A grade because they've not done anything for 20years, well this system has successfully made them fix that. So isn't that a good thing? Nothing else the game tried has succeeded in that. Doing what you're asked to do is not "gaming the system".
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the pieman
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Re: IMG Gradings confirmed

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Mike wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:06 pm How much does utilisation actually count for? 0.25 of a point or something. We should be increasing the top scoring attendance to 10K over the next 3-4 years IMO.

And I'd say to the complaint that cas and Wakefield don't deserve to be A grade because they've not done anything for 20years, well this system has successfully made them fix that. So isn't that a good thing? Nothing else the game tried has succeeded in that. Doing what you're asked to do is not "gaming the system".
yes, but that was just an example and one of many that we feel that isnt right. Bar been set too low IMO, but no reason why it shouldnt get increased but i'd personally say over 10k, or 10k with a view to being 15k in 5 years time

re gaming the system, Derek Beaumont is clear that he has gamed the system at Leigh, and had to because others had done it, and Leigh would have been Grade B, and below Huddersfield, Hull and Salford, despite having a far better facility than some other clubs, having success on the pitch and offering one of the best pre-match entertainments over the last couple of years.
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Re: IMG Gradings confirmed

Post by josie andrews »

IMG grading tweaks could be made with key date set for potential changes

Changes to IMG's grading criteria have not been ruled out.

RFL chief executive Tony Sutton has stated that there won't be any 'fundamental' changes to the IMG grading criteria—at least in the next year or two. However, he has conceded that there could be more 'intricate' alterations made on a year-to-year basis.

Sutton believes that it wouldn't be in the best interests of the sport to make said fundamental changes, with the first consultation process of IMG's 12-year partnership still ongoing.

All professional clubs are now judged on five pillars: performance, fandom, fianance, stadium, and community—with 15 points needed to achieve Grade A status. The top 12 highest-scoring clubs are then allocated into the Super League, with those below making up the Championship and League 1 competitions. The process then starts again for the following year, with clubs needing to match or better their existing scores to guarantee their status season by season.

The first official scores for the 2025 season have now been handed out, with nine clubs awarded Grade A status. But such grading has come under criticism from clubs since last Wednesday's confirmation, with stadium ultilisation, TV viewership, catchment, LED screens, and more all bringing frustration. It has also come to light that play-off attendances are not counted towards the attendance criteria, despite play-off results used in the performance pillar. Elsewhere, Derek Beaumont, a longtime critic of the IMG system, confirmed the manipulation of the finance pillar to guarantee Leigh Leopards' Grade A score, with Salford Red Devils one club to air their concerns.

Speaking on the potential for criteria to be amended, Sutton said: "I think it will evolve, but it wouldn't be a great position for us to change things fundamentally in the short term. We're in the middle of a consultation period with clubs, and if it's going to be anything fundamental, my view would be that it should be at least three years away.

"It depends what it was, but if it was going to be a facility point, it would take time, funding, planning, and so on. If it's going to be something fundamental, it should therefore be an appropriate timeframe to do so.

"However, going back to another element I mentioned, if it's about a different broadcast landscape, and therefore should the thresholds change? Yes, they should. Should they be next year? Probably. I think there's a range of how it may look. It depends on what you're talking about, and we've discussed a number of things in open sessions with clubs, and rightly so because we can learn things on how the model is operated."

On the scope for more minor changes, Sutton believes there is more wiggle room. For instance, tweaks to cirteria such as attendance brackets and LED screen specifications. Hull FC were one club to air such frustrations, with the pixel pitch on the MKM Stadium's two big screens deemed not good enough for IMG despite being UEFA standard. Elsewhere, Doncaster have missed out on points due to their TV gantry being a fraction too small despite Sky using a different space.

"Those more intricate things we'll do year by year," Sutton added. "The agreement we've got with clubs is that if we're going to do that, you need to know before the season and year have started.

"The timescale between now and the end of the year is that there's an RFL Council meeting on the fourth of December; if we're going to learn things from this year and last, that should go in front of clubs at that meeting so they know then if we're going to make those types of tweaks. Anything more fundamental should be longer."

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... e-30271552
Anyone can support a team when it is winning, that takes no courage.
But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
that takes a lot of courage. #18thMan
nathan_rugby
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Re: IMG Gradings confirmed

Post by nathan_rugby »

the pieman wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:18 pm
Mike wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:06 pm How much does utilisation actually count for? 0.25 of a point or something. We should be increasing the top scoring attendance to 10K over the next 3-4 years IMO.

And I'd say to the complaint that cas and Wakefield don't deserve to be A grade because they've not done anything for 20years, well this system has successfully made them fix that. So isn't that a good thing? Nothing else the game tried has succeeded in that. Doing what you're asked to do is not "gaming the system".
yes, but that was just an example and one of many that we feel that isnt right. Bar been set too low IMO, but no reason why it shouldnt get increased but i'd personally say over 10k, or 10k with a view to being 15k in 5 years time

re gaming the system, Derek Beaumont is clear that he has gamed the system at Leigh, and had to because others had done it, and Leigh would have been Grade B, and below Huddersfield, Hull and Salford, despite having a far better facility than some other clubs, having success on the pitch and offering one of the best pre-match entertainments over the last couple of years.
In which bit have Leigh gamed the system? The finance aspect because DB is the owner?
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Re: IMG Gradings confirmed

Post by WarriorWinger »

nathan_rugby wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 1:25 pm
the pieman wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:18 pm
Mike wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:06 pm How much does utilisation actually count for? 0.25 of a point or something. We should be increasing the top scoring attendance to 10K over the next 3-4 years IMO.

And I'd say to the complaint that cas and Wakefield don't deserve to be A grade because they've not done anything for 20years, well this system has successfully made them fix that. So isn't that a good thing? Nothing else the game tried has succeeded in that. Doing what you're asked to do is not "gaming the system".
yes, but that was just an example and one of many that we feel that isnt right. Bar been set too low IMO, but no reason why it shouldnt get increased but i'd personally say over 10k, or 10k with a view to being 15k in 5 years time

re gaming the system, Derek Beaumont is clear that he has gamed the system at Leigh, and had to because others had done it, and Leigh would have been Grade B, and below Huddersfield, Hull and Salford, despite having a far better facility than some other clubs, having success on the pitch and offering one of the best pre-match entertainments over the last couple of years.
In which bit have Leigh gamed the system? The finance aspect because DB is the owner?
I think he 'moved' money into the club from a sponsorship point of view to score higher on the funding side of things if I read correctly.
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Re: IMG Gradings confirmed

Post by nathan_rugby »

josie andrews wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:17 pm IMG grading tweaks could be made with key date set for potential changes

All professional clubs are now judged on five pillars: performance, fandom, fianance, stadium, and community—with 15 points needed to achieve Grade A status. The top 12 highest-scoring clubs are then allocated into the Super League, with those below making up the Championship and League 1 competitions. The process then starts again for the following year, with clubs needing to match or better their existing scores to guarantee their status season by season.


https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... e-30271552
Did this come from Sutton himself or the journalist?

Because my understanding is that neither bettering your score or matching it will absolutely guarantee your status in super league.
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."
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