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Why The Panic?????
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:06 am
by Colin_Marbella
We are not going down. This time its not the coach. In Wigan we have always paniced when we lose a couple of games then sack the coach. We have a salary cap now, the days of the 80's have gone where money buys a trophy. In todays game, trophies are won by solid team work, players playing for 100 minutes with 100% enthusiasm and a great coach. This team is not built overnight. We need time to develop our winning machine; there is no quick fix. Saints, Bradford and Leeds have not attained success overnight, we have dusted them for several years. Slowly but surely they have worked with what they have, strengthened and developed in to the teams they are today. We need to do the same. Simply getting rid of the coach will spiral us more in to disillusionment. Millward has a sound CV, look at Leigh and Saints. Give it time, we will be Champions again. Sack the unmotivated players, not the coach.
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Re: Why The Panic?????
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:03 pm
by sai
Sack the unmotivated players, not the coach. we would not have a team. Who would you sack?? i would get shut of D Vaealiki, D Orr, D Moran & K Brown to start with. As for building a team for the future i cannot see this. Over the past few seasons the under 21 & 18 have done very well so why have we released 80% of them ( the 21 were told this before the 21 grand final) actions speak louder than words James Coyle was the GB number 7 yet we let him go why (please dont say salary cap as i woulg gues Moran is on more money than Coyle) we bring players on lone from Salford to help us out, why not let a under 21 forward fill in. please let our actions say the same as our words
Re: Why The Panic?????
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:01 pm
by Fraggle
sai posted:
James Coyle was the GB number 7 yet we let him go why (please dont say salary cap as i woulg gues Moran is on more money than Coyle)
Ok, I won't say salary cap but I will say "contract" to you. Moran's under contract, and if the club wanted to terminate that contract it would cost us a small fortune (and I suspect paying-up player contracts counts against the salary cap as well). Same goes for many of the other heavily-criticised players, you can't just get rid if they're under contract. It *is* sad that so many of the U21's have gone, but they couldn't all get in the first team. Some may have wanted £20k+ contracts, which weren't necessarily available. And one thing that Millward has certainly done is decided who he wants to stay and who he wants to go, so it's not just the junior players that have been cleared out but most of the backroom staff as well.
Some of the youngsters have to be released every year as there just aren't enough 1st team slots for them to fill. Some will want to leave in order to get first team slots elsewhere that they can't get at Wigan (Briscoe). The club will also decide to cash in on some of these players, as they'll all have attracted a transfer fee of some description.
Re: Why The Panic?????
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:08 pm
by thegimble
Fraggle posted:
sai posted:
James Coyle was the GB number 7 yet we let him go why (please dont say salary cap as i woulg gues Moran is on more money than Coyle)
Ok, I won't say salary cap but I will say "contract" to you. Moran's under contract, and if the club wanted to terminate that contract it would cost us a small fortune (and I suspect paying-up player contracts counts against the salary cap as well). Same goes for many of the other heavily-criticised players, you can't just get rid if they're under contract. It *is* sad that so many of the U21's have gone, but they couldn't all get in the first team. Some may have wanted £20k+ contracts, which weren't necessarily available. And one thing that Millward has certainly done is decided who he wants to stay and who he wants to go, so it's not just the junior players that have been cleared out but most of the backroom staff as well.
Some of the youngsters have to be released every year as there just aren't enough 1st team slots for them to fill. Some will want to leave in order to get first team slots elsewhere that they can't get at Wigan (Briscoe). The club will also decide to cash in on some of these players, as they'll all have attracted a transfer fee of some description.
So therefore would it make sense for us not to have such a good policy on brining youngsters through and just let all the othersides develop them.
How many of the Academy side of 2-3 years ago are knocking on the door and are good enough for us..
Re: Why The Panic?????
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:15 pm
by Fraggle
thegimble posted:
So therefore would it make sense for us not to have such a good policy on brining youngsters through and just let all the othersides develop them.
And unfortunately, if we do that the British game falls apart. How many players either from the Wigan area or who were at our club are playing in Superleague? It is a frightening number, and must be part of the reason why some other teams don't really bother with youth set-ups as good as ours, they know they can pick up castoffs from Wigan. It has been like that for a long time, I guess the big difference last year was that so many of the players we released had already made it to the first team and some were perhaps arguably better than the senior players in their positions but because of contracts, the salary cap, transfer fees and all the rest, the young players weren't going to take the first team slots from existing players. Is that bad organisation by the club? Very possibly. But at the same time, players like Dave Allen, Bob Beswick etc are now getting very regular first-team games that they may not have had if they had stayed at Wigan.
Re: Why The Panic?????
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:34 pm
by sai
Fair comment about the players on the contracts but were does that leave us as a club (relegated).what do we do with the players who are on contracts who are not performing. What state will the club be in when they go and we are still here but with the players we released haunting us.
Also a bit worried about the direction we are going in the transfer market with the signing of 25 year old Second Row Forward Oliver Wilkes from Whitehaven on a 2 year contract. I don’t recall st Helens & Bradford signing players from the lower league this season. So one more person on contract affecting the development of future stars at Wigan.
Re: Why The Panic?????
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:40 pm
by Fraggle
sai posted:
Also a bit worried about the direction we are going in the transfer market with the signing of 25 year old Second Row Forward Oliver Wilkes from Whitehaven on a 2 year contract. I don’t recall st Helens & Bradford signing players from the lower league this season. So one more person on contract affecting the development of future stars at Wigan.
No arguments about this one. I can't remember anything about Wilkes so won't comment on him, but Millward's original loan target (Mason) wouldn't have given us anything that a younger player within the club couldn't. We got lucky a couple of years ago with Quentin Pongia, who we should have had years earlier and it was rather tragic the way his career was ended, and Guisset worked out ok last year, but we're not exactly aiming high with our recruitment at the moment, going for cast-offs who can't even get games at clubs they've been loaned out to, or people who've got virtually no experience in SL.
Re: Why The Panic?????
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:58 pm
by thegimble
Fraggle posted:
thegimble posted:
So therefore would it make sense for us not to have such a good policy on brining youngsters through and just let all the othersides develop them.
And unfortunately, if we do that the British game falls apart. How many players either from the Wigan area or who were at our club are playing in Superleague? It is a frightening number, and must be part of the reason why some other teams don't really bother with youth set-ups as good as ours, they know they can pick up castoffs from Wigan. It has been like that for a long time, I guess the big difference last year was that so many of the players we released had already made it to the first team and some were perhaps arguably better than the senior players in their positions but because of contracts, the salary cap, transfer fees and all the rest, the young players weren't going to take the first team slots from existing players. Is that bad organisation by the club? Very possibly. But at the same time, players like Dave Allen, Bob Beswick etc are now getting very regular first-team games that they may not have had if they had stayed at Wigan.
But how many go through the net to other clubs after they leave the academy and therefore get coached by poorer quality of coaches. (Though this season it might be a step up).
The cap is a decent idea but it does not help a club like ours who has a good academy system when we lose players due to the restraint.
Hows this for an idea. If a player comes through a clubs system he becomes nul and void on the cap and therefore it benefits the best academy set ups rather than whats happening now punishes them.
Saints and the Bulls would suffer more than we would do.
Re: Why The Panic?????
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:59 pm
by sai
I won’t keep going on about the youngsters but I don’t agree with the panic buying. I don’t see the building of the future Wigan RL club in the recruiting of some of players and why do we need another coach. I cannot see us going down this season but I believe it will be close. Most worrying is I cannot see a plan for the next few seasons to make Wigan a force in rugby league again. Remember Milward inherited a very strong team from Shaun McCray at Saint Helens which he built up over a good few seasons his is what we need to do. We need a game plan not just a survival plan.
Re: Why The Panic?????
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:03 pm
by - psycho -
firstly i would concentrate on survival and then jsut concentrate on the long term aspects of the club. this season is going to be tough and we are still expecting to get into the play offs, some people are anyway. as soon as we get relegation out of the way then concentrate on the future and continuing to build. its no good making a plan and then being relegated into the national league because then that plan that you made for the teams future will be out of the window and you can wave good bye to the quality players.