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cpwigan posted:
I think your wasted Rob, defence attorney is your true calling Touchjudge watches the kicker and challenges, tells the referee what he sees, referee says to video referee high/late or just late? Sent off or sin binned. This refereeing lark is common sense. It isn't rocket science

TJs and referee all watch the kicker, whoever has best view pays most attention. If the kicker isn't touched you call clear. You can't use the video referee for in-game challenges though, or you'd get the debate of where to draw the line.

Why can't you accept that it isn't always possible to spot everything? You seem to want it to be the case that the referee and TJs intentionally didn't send off Wilkin.

When I do something I make mistakes. Everybody does. However, I refuse to accept them. I try to learn from them and improve. I expect officials to be no different.

Simple strategy:

Pre season: Cummings issues circular 5601 - A player challenging a kicker is expected to have his arms either raised high in the air or be diving to tackle the kicker with arms outstretched.

Touchjudges watch the kickers and challenges. You specify their role. A referee cannot watch 2 things at the same time. If he is watching offside chasers / obstructing chasers he cannot be looking back at the kicker. Sop the touch judge has a specified role and the referee does.

People who say you cannot do this / cannot do that impede progress. The video referee can and should be used. Nothing wrong with debate. It is healthy.

Bottom line - St Helens through Jason Hooper and now Jon Wilkin have been attacking kickers for several years. I believe it is negligence that this has not been stopped after so long. I view attacks on kickers as cowardice.

And do not get me started on other aspects of RL refereeing. Some of us understand this game pretty well

if a late challenge on a kicker goes unnoticed and the opposite team gathers the ball goes downfield and scores,and the ref asks the video ref to take a look,can the video ref give the match ref a sugestion on how bad the challenge was and what action to take.

cpwigan posted:
When I do something I make mistakes. Everybody does. However, I refuse to accept them. I try to learn from them and improve. I expect officials to be no different.

It's the same with refereeing, you do a self-assessment after each game, but what you don't seem to understand is that it isn't always as clear cut in real time as it is when you've watched a replay 25 times.

Pre season: Cummings issues circular 5601 - A player challenging a kicker is expected to have his arms either raised high in the air or be diving to tackle the kicker with arms outstretched.

You're not listening cp; a challenge on a kicker is a penalty, whether it's a tackle or a charge down. You cannot tackle a player without the ball and a kicker is not in possession of the ball.

Touchjudges watch the kickers and challenges. You specify their role. A referee cannot watch 2 things at the same time. If he is watching offside chasers / obstructing chasers he cannot be looking back at the kicker. So the touch judge has a specified role and the referee does.

There are guidelines in place to spot these things happening, everyone knows their roles and that's why it was spotted and Wilkin sin-binned. Had play continued and no penalty given then you would be totally right to complain.

Two seasons ago; I doubt whether that would have been given as even a penalty, I believe that to be good progress.

Bottom line - St Helens through Jason Hooper and now Jon Wilkin have been attacking kickers for several years. I believe it is negligence that this has not been stopped after so long. I view attacks on kickers as cowardice.

It is cowardice and challenges on kickers is now being given the attention it should. The fact is that it's being clamped down on and dealt with accordingly so why continue to complain?

jammie posted:
if a late challenge on a kicker goes unnoticed and the opposite team gathers the ball goes downfield and scores,and the ref asks the video ref to take a look,can the video ref give the match ref a sugestion on how bad the challenge was and what action to take.

I don't think so. The referee or TJ will be looking out for it though and if there is an advantage played he'll deal with it after the try.

robjoenz posted:

TJs and referee all watch the kicker...

But someone has to be looking for where the ball lands (to know the spot where any penalty would be given), someone spotting where the kick was taken from for a possible 40/20, someone for offsides, someone for obstructions on the chasers etc. I think the point being made is that each official should have one of those things to look at, otherwise, as you say, you have 3 watching the same thing, and other things possibly being missed.

what i was meaning was the attacking team kicks the ball & the kicker is tackled late but the officils don't see it.the defending team get the ball and go on to score.if the ref asks for the video ref to take a look can he go as far back as the kick, and then tell the ref how bad the tackle was and what action to take.

GeoffN posted:
But someone has to be looking for where the ball lands (to know the spot where any penalty would be given), someone spotting where the kick was taken from for a possible 40/20, someone for offsides, someone for obstructions on the chasers etc. I think the point being made is that each official should have one of those things to look at, otherwise, as you say, you have 3 watching the same thing, and other things possibly being missed.

There is no easy way of doing it or simple way to dedicate roles.

If the kicker is amongst the line as the challenge occurs then the referee may be best placed to see. However, the referee has to also turn around and be watching when the ball is collected/bounces.

The near side TJ is likely to be following the PTB so he is in the best position to see offsides, but he is also likely to be in the best position to see if the kicker is challenged. If you watch a kick, the nearside TJ will probably wait a second until the kicker is 'clear.'

Sometimes, however, the near side TJ may have his view obstructed and the referee or far side TJ will have the best view.

My point is; there are a million and one scenarios that could occur so it's not possible to dedicate roles to each person, you just have to say what you see and see what you can.

Rob refereeing is simple and you and your cohort want to try to make it overly complicated. Why is it that every poster here can see it is simple for 1 the referee to be dealing with what happens downfield of the kick and the touchjudge to be looking at the point of the kick. It is impossible for one person to watch both at the same time.

Honestly, refereeing can be as simple or as complicated as you want to make it.

Rob, here's a suggestion for you to bring up at the next boy scouts meeting...

For televised matches, why not have the video ref (or one of his assistants from sky) watch the kicker to see if he is taken late. He could then also make the call whether it should involve a sanction for the player involved.

As far as I am aware the Video Ref doesn't do anything else unless asked to by the Ref. The game normally has to stop after a late hit on the kicker for the downed player to receive treatment anyway