The quick tap from the 20

[right cross]

rob, can you please clarify the ruleing on the quick tap ,cheers.

[GeoffN]

We had the opportunity of a quick tap tonight (about 30 minutes in I think) and Klein blew for the restart while he was still running back into position.

If he can do it, why can't Ganson?

[robjoenz]

GeoffN posted:
We had the opportunity of a quick tap tonight (about 30 minutes in I think) and Klein blew for the restart while he was still running back into position.

If he can do it, why can't Ganson?

Personal preference of the referee. If the referee feels he is still in control of the game allowing the quick tap he allows it, if he doesn't he won't. It's that simple. Klein is probably the most comfortable at allowing it IMO. Ganson and Smith, for example, seem more comfortable making sure they're in position and not still moving.


Right cross - I suppose the definition would mean a free kick before the defensive line had set. There is no official term though, it's just a free kick.

[DaveO]

robjoenz posted:

GeoffN posted:
We had the opportunity of a quick tap tonight (about 30 minutes in I think) and Klein blew for the restart while he was still running back into position.

If he can do it, why can't Ganson?

Personal preference of the referee. If the referee feels he is still in control of the game allowing the quick tap he allows it, if he doesn't he won't. It's that simple. Klein is probably the most comfortable at allowing it IMO. Ganson and Smith, for example, seem more comfortable making sure they're in position and not still moving.

Well at least that confirms that referees police this inconsistently compared to one another which is THE major criticism of referees.

Also, I presume we are right that there is nothing in the rule book that says the ref must be on the 30m line before he blows?

As has been said previously in this thread those who insist on getting back to the 30m line are favouring the defence.

Clearly that isn't necessary to have a controlled restart and so it seems to me this is yet another Cummings directive that isn't actually part of the rules that is being interpreted in different ways by different referees.

There is no way that is good for the game.

Dave

[robjoenz]

DaveO posted:
Well at least that confirms that referees police this inconsistently compared to one another which is THE major criticism of referees.

Also, I presume we are right that there is nothing in the rule book that says the ref must be on the 30m line before he blows?

As has been said previously in this thread those who insist on getting back to the 30m line are favouring the defence.

Clearly that isn't necessary to have a controlled restart and so it seems to me this is yet another Cummings directive that isn't actually part of the rules that is being interpreted in different ways by different referees.

There is no way that is good for the game.

Dave

Yes, there is some inconsistency here, but how would you suggest getting around it? The key point is that the referee must be ready and the restart must be controlled by the referee.

Referees like Klein are fitter and faster than the likes of Ganson and Smith, therefore, he can get to the 30 m line faster such that he has control of the restart.

The answer is not to sack Ganson and Smith for not being as fit, they are older and have the experience that Klein doesn't have at SL standard.

Give it 5 years time, there are loads of really good young referees and touch judges coming through the ranks (and I don't mean myself). Despite what everyone thinks of Cummings (Brown, Tennant, etc.) he has massively improved standards and structures inplace for development of referees.

[DaveO]

robjoenz posted:
Yes, there is some inconsistency here, but how would you suggest getting around it?

Revert to the way it was interpreted previously. It is only recently that certain refs are insisting on getting back to the 30m line, presumably due to their interpretations of directives form the RFL.

The key point is that the referee must be ready and the restart must be controlled by the referee.

Referees like Klein are fitter and faster than the likes of Ganson and Smith, therefore, he can get to the 30 m line faster such that he has control of the restart.

I thought we had established getting back to the 30m line was not a requirement with Klien blowing up to restart be before that while running into position in the Bulls game. So if he feels he is ready and can blow for the restart I don't see why the other refs can't do the same.

The answer is not to sack Ganson and Smith for not being as fit, they are older and have the experience that Klein doesn't have at SL standard.

It is not their fitness that is the problem but their interpretation of the rule being different to other refs who are not insisting on getting back to the 30m line. If they reffed the game the same way there would be no need for them to hold the game up while they got back and there would not be an issue.

Give it 5 years time, there are loads of really good young referees and touch judges coming through the ranks (and I don't mean myself). Despite what everyone thinks of Cummings (Brown, Tennant, etc.) he has massively improved standards and structures inplace for development of referees.

They may well be much better refs but given the solution to the inconsistency of 20m restart could be achieved with the refs we have now, people will continue to complain about it when one week they see their team (or the opposition) take a quick tap and the next week get penalised for it.

Dave

[GeoffN]

Watch the clip I'm talking about, Rob. Klein is running back from about the 10m line, he checks WHILE HE'S RUNNING that all the Wigan players are onside, checks for offsides on the Bradford line, and blows for the restart, still on the run, as he passes the 20. That, IMO, is good refereeing (and I'm certainly not a Klein fan!).
The point being, it shows there's nothing in the rules to say he has to be on the 30. Nothing to do with his extra pace, as Dave has said, simply his willingness (in this instance) to keep the game moving, and to not favour the defence.

[robjoenz]

GeoffN posted:
Watch the clip I'm talking about, Rob. Klein is running back from about the 10m line, he checks WHILE HE'S RUNNING that all the Wigan players are onside, checks for offsides on the Bradford line, and blows for the restart, still on the run, as he passes the 20. That, IMO, is good refereeing (and I'm certainly not a Klein fan!).
The point being, it shows there's nothing in the rules to say he has to be on the 30. Nothing to do with his extra pace, as Dave has said, simply his willingness (in this instance) to keep the game moving, and to not favour the defence.

I remember it happening on Saturday night, Geoff.

There is nothing in the rules that states the referee has to be on the 30 m line, the key point everyone is missing is that the referee must feel he is in control of the restart.

[mike binder]

I have not seen a ref in control of anything this season ,especially a restart(apart from you Rob)

[damien morrissey]

robjoenz posted:

GeoffN posted:
Watch the clip I'm talking about, Rob. Klein is running back from about the 10m line, he checks WHILE HE'S RUNNING that all the Wigan players are onside, checks for offsides on the Bradford line, and blows for the restart, still on the run, as he passes the 20. That, IMO, is good refereeing (and I'm certainly not a Klein fan!).
The point being, it shows there's nothing in the rules to say he has to be on the 30. Nothing to do with his extra pace, as Dave has said, simply his willingness (in this instance) to keep the game moving, and to not favour the defence.

I remember it happening on Saturday night, Geoff.

There is nothing in the rules that states the referee has to be on the 30 m line, the key point everyone is missing is that the referee must feel he is in control of the restart.

Rob dont you see this as a major problem. The rules are meant to be black and white clear for everyone if the ref applies the rules on how he feels doesnt he open himself up to questions.
What i read from your statement is that if the ref can do what the hell he likes and can answer it with i didnt feel like i was in control.How can the players coaches and fans understand that? Whats the point in having a rulebook if one rule can lead to 2 variables one which offers the attack the advantage and one that doesnt.