Re: Get Lindsey out campaign

[GeoffN]

smudge273 posted:
thats true !!! We obviously have a chairman who doesnt quite grasp the rules. He thinks that he can do stuff and he clearly cant. Unless we have a written statement from the RFL stating that deferral of wages is allowed we dont have leg to stand on. Maurice should have had to forsight to request that document last year and if the RFL said no we cannot give you that then you know.

No, it's the other way around; if there's nothing in the rules to say it's illegal (which there isn't), then it's legal.
The RFL have decided to use their catch-all "spirit of the cap" idea to punish us.

Laws (any laws) don't itemise everything that's legal, they say what's illegal, so anything not on the list should be allowed.
By that process, unless and until deferred payments are specifically proscribed, they should be allowed.
There's a lengthy list in the rules of all the payments that count towards the cap; deferred payments are not on that list.

[smudge273]

The law works on precident and it would appear that we are the first club who have tried this (or at least the forst club who have been caught trying it) therefor the RFL set the precident that you will be punished for doing it. If you think Mo is good for the club then that is your choice. Just remember though he has brought very little success to the club in the superleague era. He has never grasped the workings of the salary cap. It is 5 years since we won something. Regardless of the cap problem he should stand down and let someone come in with new ideas to try to take the club forward

[cpwigan]

DW should sue the RFL.

We must end the cap once and for all. It has not worked and it never will. RFL in GB has always been dependent upon enticing players from non RL backgrounds (Union) and from overseas. We need to retain those avenue and the only way possible is by ending the cap.

The cap has achieved nothing

[Fujiman]

smudge273 posted:
The law works on precident

How do you work that one out :conf:

[cpwigan]

It is actually the RFL that is fighting for its credibility. Wigan have made them look incompetent once and it should be twice. Lewis and co would be under pressure to resign. The legal ramifications for them are huge.

If we broke no rule and we did not then we must morally appeal and if need be take legal action. Wigan have done nothing that any other club in SL is not doing but in the guise of offshore accounts. The ex chief exec of Catalan said in print (aus press) that they used that loophole. Have they ever been punished?

If I said to any man or woman here that I am going to punish you for doing exactly what everybody else is doing would you accept it?

[Fujiman]

pieater-alex posted:

cpwigan posted:
Smudge, as a teacher I may believe that pupil X is a bad egg BUT if I want to exclude him I have to prove it with evidence and my case has to be 100% proof legally. If not, the Governors will throw it out. Why because legally they could open themselves to a massive law suit.

The RFL got things wrong. They had already been made to look incompetent over the amount of points deductable. They could not allow that to happen again. Alas that is no basis for a ruling to be made. If you make a mistake and somebody outsmarts you legally you take it on the chin and learn from it. Making sure it never happens again.

Wigan RLFC must call the RFLs bluff and appeal and threaten a legal law suit. In the long run it will serve the whole of RFL better because it will force our governing body to manage its affairs more compently.

We broke no regulation. Yet we were punished. That is the type of regime and conduct one expects from dictators such as Mugabi et al. Not the RFL.

I think an appeal would be a massive PR disaster and heap further shame on the club and Rugby League as a whole.

Just from reading comments on here tonight so many fans,including many Wigan fans are already appalled at the level of cheating and the stigma its brought to the club.

Any hint of an appeal will result in even more contempt for what has been and still is one of the most famous clubs in the world.

I think the club should take the punishment on the chin and be just thankfull that its not the 8 points you would have got if it had not been for your sneaky lawyers finding a loophole to a decision that every club knew it voted and accepted to double the points penalty this season for last years breaches.

Funny turn of phrase that

[Matthew]

Got to say that I agree with Fraggle and CP on this one.

If the RFL can prove that we broke a law set out in the cap against deferred payments then we have no basis for an appeal - if they can't then they have acted illegally and there decision will be turned over at appeal.

I am all for sacking ML if he is in the wrong - however I have my doubts that it was him that spent hours reading the salary cap legislation looking for a loophole. He might have agreed with it when he was suggested - however such an action would have had to be OK'd by the owner - DW. Unfortunately ML is a target of hatred for many fans for everything that is wrong with Wigan - so anything that goes wrong must be his fault, what about DW?

Ultimately, as passionate as we are about Wigan RL, it doesn't belong to us. The club belongs to DW and he can do what he likes with it.

As was stated by another poster, loyalty goes both ways and to turn your back on a club (who I am guessing a lot of us have supported for a great many years) because we don't like a non playing member of staff seems ridiculous.

If the deduction sticks we now have £200K to spend on players this year to push for the play offs - any Aussies fancy doing an Andrew Johns for us for the remainder of the season?

[Fujiman]

Matthew posted:
Got to say that I agree with Fraggle and CP on this one.

If the RFL can prove that we broke a law set out in the cap against deferred payments then we have no basis for an appeal - if they can't then they have acted illegally and there decision will be turned over at appeal.

I am all for sacking ML if he is in the wrong - however I have my doubts that it was him that spent hours reading the salary cap legislation looking for a loophole. He might have agreed with it when he was suggested - however such an action would have had to be OK'd by the owner - DW. Unfortunately ML is a target of hatred for many fans for everything that is wrong with Wigan - so anything that goes wrong must be his fault, what about DW?

Ultimately, as passionate as we are about Wigan RL, it doesn't belong to us. The club belongs to DW and he can do what he likes with it.

As was stated by another poster, loyalty goes both ways and to turn your back on a club (who I am guessing a lot of us have supported for a great many years) because we don't like a non playing member of staff seems ridiculous.

If the deduction sticks we now have £200K to spend on players this year to push for the play offs - any Aussies fancy doing an Andrew Johns for us for the remainder of the season?

That would be a nice thought Mathew and sticking 2 fingers up to the RFL but i think the deadline for signings has passed

[cpwigan]

The deadline has passed unfortunately Matthew

However, recent press by the St Helens chairman argued teams should have to spend all their cap allowance. I say otherwise. Why should a club not be able to say, we will underspend by 300,000 this season and use it in the next season?

[Matthew]

Further more; didn't the RFL back down when stains threatened to take them to court over the fine that they tried to give them for fielding a weakened team prior to the Murrayfield CC final?

Why don't we throw that in with a restriction of trade action against the RFL and see them in court? Maybe we could bankrupt them and start again