Will this team ever be good enough?

[Doveoverdave]

I Posted some where about there never being a "club" since the move to the JJB.

Seems a lot of fellow posters agree with phrases like 'team', 'spirit', 'passion', 'ethos' cropping up all the time.

We may have to throw out the baby with the bathwater and start again.

Liverpool FC did this by ridding the club of the fans' favourites, the "Spice Boys".

Maybe there is a "Spice boy" element at the club now.

One thing for sure, the first generation of truly full time, know nothing else but Rugby, wealthy, full time pros cannot hold a candle to the "part timers" that made the "club" great in the eyes of the world.

[phibes]

What is worrying is that it is a catch22 so what needs to change? Next season from the current team we have playing now we are losing Barrett, Higham and Calderwood (and maybe Colbon) and only getting Riddle and Smith with Pryce a possibility. I think its unreasonable to expect these three to drag the rest of this underachieving team up to the next level. A lot rests on Riddle and Smiths shoulders but they can't compensate alone if the attitude and application from their team mates is wrong. Look at Barrett's face when playing - I get the impression he is totally fed up of what the rest of the team do on the pitch.

I guess that is where the coach comes in. It's up to him to sort this out. So if as some have argued the players are good enough then it really is Nobby's last chance next year IMO.

Dave

It's a difficult problem to solve without advocating large-scale changes like a new coach/backroom staff. Signing some great individual players will help, but as Barrett has proved, having great individuals in your side doesn't necessarily improve teamwork or the team culture.

We had a good run under Noble this time last year, but he hasn't resolved the problem of inconsistency, and it's difficult to see us winning a cup or a title if we can't crack that.

I'm not in favour of getting rid of Noble (though I might be around 9:45PM on Friday...) - but do we really want another up-and-down year in 2009?

[pedro]

We have been saying this for most of the season , I agree with everything that has been posted about our under achieving team .
At he end of the day it`s the coach who must take responsibilty for our performances , after each defeat we see a different excuse of why we didn`t play .
Noble in my opinion has taken us as far as he can , it` s always one step forward and one back .
If we want to be great again we need a coach with innovative ideas and with motivation skills , Noble doesn`t have these coaching qualities .
sorry to the pro nobbies on the site who keep quoting stability , but having stability without success is not what I want to see .

Ok sack Nobby again this week! Who will replace him? Who's available?

A good few aussie coaches are available.

[weststand-rich]

It's a nothing year again and I'm a bit bored to be honest. At least last year we had a good stab at a cup run and then a really exciting run-in and the previous year we had the drama of relegation to spice things up.

Our away form since the end of May has been very poor and I wonder if playing on Saturday or Sunday allows some of our more ebullient squad members the opportunity for some weekend social excesses?????????

[Exiled Wiganer]

The answer is so obvious to me - we need to be fitter and more agile. You only need to look at our players shapes and compare them with Saints and it is clear which set are athletes. Without being fitter, we won't be able to recover from big efforts beating teams like Leeds, won't be able to cover back in numbers enough, and won't be able to have the team in full motion in attack (again, see the top teams).
That relative lack of conditioning is inexcusable, and down to one person - Noble.

[jaws1]

The answer is so obvious to me - we need to be fitter and more agile. You only need to look at our players shapes and compare them with Saints and it is clear which set are athletes. Without being fitter, we won't be able to recover from big efforts beating teams like Leeds, won't be able to cover back in numbers enough, and won't be able to have the team in full motion in attack (again, see the top teams).
That relative lack of conditioning is inexcusable, and down to one person - Noble.

Been saying this for quite a while now Forshaw is the conditioner not Noble he seems to have them more in the gym and less time with ball in hand .I wrote in another thread Bill Shankly said you can train a team all running round the pitch all day and they will soon get fed up give them a ball to play with and they will run all day.Method in his madness they are still getting fitter playing ball and getting ball skills that is lacking at Wigan.

[pedro]

used to think forshaw was very good for the club as last season our injuries were good compared to most this season has been a nightmare and we seem a bit chubby...may need another approach

[jaws1]

I think we are a bit too skinny barring Feka they have no upper body weight .

[cpwigan]

I think we are a bit too skinny barring Feka they have no upper body weight .

Is that not that we are quite a tall team? The short guys look to be carrying excess or not trained for speed. Feka, Tommy, Goulding spring to mind.

[butt monkey]

I think the issue of player quality is always loaded for Wigan fans, because a lot of us can remember when we had quality across the park. The thing we're missing in terms of individuals is real leadership on the pitch, like we had with Farrell. This is a well-worn debate (and I don't want to open the captaincy debate again) but I feel the absence of leadership on the field goes some way to explaining our poor teamwork (particularly in defence).

At a broader level, IMO there has been a problem with the club culture for a few years now. It's not just the all the soft tries we let in, the schoolboy errors or the stupid penalties - as a team, we lack composure under pressure, we're not clinical (especially in attack) and we have such a soft underbelly that any opposition must fancy their chances regardless of the scoreline.

Regardless of the players we have, the team can't realise their potential collectively until they build some momentum week in/week out - as we did at the end of last season. And we can't build momentum until we stop playing in patches - as we have done all season. So, it's a catch-22 and I don't see an easy solution.

Well said!

It is something that does seem apparent, no matter who Wigan have had coaching them during the SL era.

What the underlying problem is for the failings of the highly talented (and highly paid too) Wigans sides, I do not know, is it more than a coaching/conditioning problem or do they together, highlight the overall club deficiencies - again, not sure.

One thing for sure, there are alot of players who should take "a long hard look at themselves in the mirror".

Talent is one thing - effort is another, and there are players affording very little effort for the 80 minutes per game at the moment imo.