Fans Forum - Status quo, No change

[ian b]

after reading the forum about the meeting on monday and what lennigan has said about the teams 7 major issues and how we are years behind the top clubs,i think it could affect attendances.I like many can handle losing its the manner we are doing it,people will not keep wasting their money.Going perpignan again next week i must need my brain checking!

[cpwigan]

One question for cpwigan though - how do you square your impression that IL would not be investing in the club, with the recent RFL statment that we are partial reliant on our major shareholder? These seem like contrasting if not conflicting statments to me. Perhaps IL's focus on increasing turnover is driven by the requirment to aim at an A license in 2010, rather than something more sinister.

I agree re the desire to achieve A status in 2010 The "A turnover of at least £4 million per annum" Any Club wants to meet that criteria. However, just to add a cautionary footnote. When the licence was due to be announced I seem to recall the propaganda eminating from the club was that the reason we did not meet that criteria was an accounting technicality and they were hoping the RFL would accept their POV. The comments at the forum seem to contradict that previous assertion. So which is true? Therein lies a problem the more you talk publically and say anything but the complete truth at all times the more likely you are to trip yourself up.

As I said at the time I do not understand the RFL being so obsessed with shareholder dependency. That is the way of the sporting world in the UK to the best of my knowledge and maybe in other countries. Simon Moran is the best thing that ever happened to Warrington, Leeds in their entirety owe a lot to a single person. You could go on and on. We knew anyway that our income for accounting purposes was heavily affected by Whelan being our owner and JJB owner. Free from that, it stands to reason sponsorship revenue and such like should improve. It is a non issue for me.

The one thing I do know is that the things I have been saying here for months and others too have suddenly become revelations because IL and JL have acknowledged them. A players development / career is critical. The whole cycle of player turnover that JL acknowledges is vital has to operate like a production line. Therein lies the crux. If I could see it, if others could see it why does it take IL / JL 6 months to realise that the problems I get bored repeating myself need addressing.

As an example, does anybody believe IL / JL did not know that most clubs have 3 conditioners or that our conditioning programmes were totally inadequate. Of course not. So why did they not act sooner? Why wait 6 months and another 6 months? That could be 10% of the career of every player at this club from academy to reserve to first team that the club has served inadequately. Those 80+ employees (players) are the KEY RESOURCE this club has and yet it chose to not invest immediately in them.

INVESTMENT has to be quality. Mike Forshaw is not a world renowned conditioner. If somebody is going to lead any aspects of our players development they must be world renowned. They have to be that good. If they are not then just putting 3 Mike Forshaws together produces 3 salaries and by and large the same standard of conditioning. The improvement in our key resource (players) will be negligible. Appoint a world renowned conditioner and the improvement in our players could be vast.

World class = expensive investment. The return is a far better squad, far better team, better results, better crowds, better revenue, a club becoming more self sufficient. However, all businesses struggle to invest solely from profit. So they borrow. Sports clubs can also borrow but they have another option philanthropic owners and if you want the best then you need owners who are prepared to dig deep.

If your owner will not dig deep you are forced to employ average ability coaching staff and even drag the process out over years to rectify. The return is a squad whose potential is not realised, a poorer team, worse results, lower crowds, less revenue unless you screw the remaining supporters and a club no nearer becoming self sufficient.

Start at the top and work down. Brian Noble is not a world renowned coach. NO British RL coach is world renowned. If you want world renowned he has to be an Australian NRL coach. Whatsmore, the day he become your coach, he starts to lose in terms of his own education. Away from the NRL his own education / development suffers. That is why 3 years is the maximum any such coach can remain here. The assistants? If your grooming them as future coaches they need to be going to the NRL periodically to develop additional skills.

Everything I have listened to re IL leads me to believe he is not prepared to do that. He paid his price by buying the club and allowing his to live 'his dream' However, he then drew a line. The difference is that the line he drew for himself, the % of his own income he is willing to commit is far far less than the % of Joe Bloggs Fans income that he wants him to commit. True fans do that, sporting passion and fan behaviour is illogical. Oh wait I thought IL was a fan yet he does not behave like one. That is why I say the only real fan owner that ever existed was Jack Walker.

Talk is cheap as they say and IL can certainly talk not that it would take much to convince most Wigan fans because like all fans they are illogical and they wanted to see DW / ML go. IL could have sold bottles of corporation pop labelled as holy Wigan RLFC water to 90% of the people who attended that forum.

I see an inherently conservative man living out his dream. That conservatism means one thing, slow change. Hoyle and Moran had Cullen out 10 minutes after the kick off when they lost in a similar fashion to Wigan v Huddersfield. End result fortunes improved. What do we do? Not a lot. Whatsmore, Huddersfield was not a one off. Wigan RLFC have not produced 1 ONE outstanding SL effort for the full 80 minutes in 2008. Worse, they have shown they can for 40 minutes, for 5 minutes, for 10 minutes.

Mike you are probably right re my approach but I am too annoyed to let it concern me. Whatsmore, at the opposite end of the spectrum and equally poor in approach is the weekly letter production in the WEP by Barbara and Jeanette. Just as there will be people will be saying oh CPs lost the plot again and not read the thread/post there are people saying oh another letter from Barbara and another from Jeanette and turning over that page in the WEP. That is the right of people. Nobody has to agree / even read what anybody else publishes.

However, on this issue whether they agree or not lots of people seem to be reading.

The bottom line for me is that Wigan RLFC enjoys a unique place in RL. Whether others like it or not Wigan RLFC is considered THE CLUB. Why? History/heritage combined with repeated cycles of success. It is those cycles of success that keep that unique place. It could have been Hunslet, it could have been Huddersfield but they both lost that opportunity. Wigan RLFC nearly lost / endangered that opportunity with a very mediocre decade in the 1970's and then the early 1980's. Whatever ML, JR, JH, TR did right or wrong we owe them a debt because that period of success rescued what defines Wigan RLFC what make this club unique and special. Now for nearly a decade our place / the very soul of what this club is has been threatened by mismanagement. These ever lengthening / more frequent periods of mediocrity place what matters increasingly at risk and what actually being proud to be Wigan is about. That special pride is not set in stone and it has to be earned / fought for. Otherwise Wigan RLFC become just another grand historic club. A club that may aswell be dead. That is the responsibility every custodian who takes temporary charge of this club has to meet.

[stacey c]

One question for cpwigan though - how do you square your impression that IL would not be investing in the club, with the recent RFL statment that we are partial reliant on our major shareholder? These seem like contrasting if not conflicting statments to me. Perhaps IL's focus on increasing turnover is driven by the requirment to aim at an A license in 2010, rather than something more sinister.

I agree re the desire to achieve A status in 2010 The "A turnover of at least £4 million per annum" Any Club wants to meet that criteria. However, just to add a cautionary footnote. When the licence was due to be announced I seem to recall the propaganda eminating from the club was that the reason we did not meet that criteria was an accounting technicality and they were hoping the RFL would accept their POV. The comments at the forum seem to contradict that previous assertion. So which is true? Therein lies a problem the more you talk publically and say anything but the complete truth at all times the more likely you are to trip yourself up.

As I said at the time I do not understand the RFL being so obsessed with shareholder dependency. That is the way of the sporting world in the UK to the best of my knowledge and maybe in other countries. Simon Moran is the best thing that ever happened to Warrington, Leeds in their entirety owe a lot to a single person. You could go on and on. We knew anyway that our income for accounting purposes was heavily affected by Whelan being our owner and JJB owner. Free from that, it stands to reason sponsorship revenue and such like should improve. It is a non issue for me.

The one thing I do know is that the things I have been saying here for months and others too have suddenly become revelations because IL and JL have acknowledged them. A players development / career is critical. The whole cycle of player turnover that JL acknowledges is vital has to operate like a production line. Therein lies the crux. If I could see it, if others could see it why does it take IL / JL 6 months to realise that the problems I get bored repeating myself need addressing.

As an example, does anybody believe IL / JL did not know that most clubs have 3 conditioners or that our conditioning programmes were totally inadequate. Of course not. So why did they not act sooner? Why wait 6 months and another 6 months? That could be 10% of the career of every player at this club from academy to reserve to first team that the club has served inadequately. Those 80+ employees (players) are the KEY RESOURCE this club has and yet it chose to not invest immediately in them.

INVESTMENT has to be quality. Mike Forshaw is not a world renowned conditioner. If somebody is going to lead any aspects of our players development they must be world renowned. They have to be that good. If they are not then just putting 3 Mike Forshaws together produces 3 salaries and by and large the same standard of conditioning. The improvement in our key resource (players) will be negligible. Appoint a world renowned conditioner and the improvement in our players could be vast.

World class = expensive investment. The return is a far better squad, far better team, better results, better crowds, better revenue, a club becoming more self sufficient. However, all businesses struggle to invest solely from profit. So they borrow. Sports clubs can also borrow but they have another option philanthropic owners and if you want the best then you need owners who are prepared to dig deep.

If your owner will not dig deep you are forced to employ average ability coaching staff and even drag the process out over years to rectify. The return is a squad whose potential is not realised, a poorer team, worse results, lower crowds, less revenue unless you screw the remaining supporters and a club no nearer becoming self sufficient.

Start at the top and work down. Brian Noble is not a world renowned coach. NO British RL coach is world renowned. If you want world renowned he has to be an Australian NRL coach. Whatsmore, the day he become your coach, he starts to lose in terms of his own education. Away from the NRL his own education / development suffers. That is why 3 years is the maximum any such coach can remain here. The assistants? If your grooming them as future coaches they need to be going to the NRL periodically to develop additional skills.

Everything I have listened to re IL leads me to believe he is not prepared to do that. He paid his price by buying the club and allowing his to live 'his dream' However, he then drew a line. The difference is that the line he drew for himself, the % of his own income he is willing to commit is far far less than the % of Joe Bloggs Fans income that he wants him to commit. True fans do that, sporting passion and fan behaviour is illogical. Oh wait I thought IL was a fan yet he does not behave like one. That is why I say the only real fan owner that ever existed was Jack Walker.

Talk is cheap as they say and IL can certainly talk not that it would take much to convince most Wigan fans because like all fans they are illogical and they wanted to see DW / ML go. IL could have sold bottles of corporation pop labelled as holy Wigan RLFC water to 90% of the people who attended that forum.
I see an inherently conservative man living out his dream. That conservatism means one thing, slow change. Hoyle and Moran had Cullen out 10 minutes after the kick off when they lost in a similar fashion to Wigan v Huddersfield. End result fortunes improved. What do we do? Not a lot. Whatsmore, Huddersfield was not a one off. Wigan RLFC have not produced 1 ONE outstanding SL effort for the full 80 minutes in 2008. Worse, they have shown they can for 40 minutes, for 5 minutes, for 10 minutes.

Mike you are probably right re my approach but I am too annoyed to let it concern me. Whatsmore, at the opposite end of the spectrum and equally poor in approach is the weekly letter production in the WEP by Barbara and Jeanette. Just as there will be people will be saying oh CPs lost the plot again and not read the thread/post there are people saying oh another letter from Barbara and another from Jeanette and turning over that page in the WEP. That is the right of people. Nobody has to agree / even read what anybody else publishes.

However, on this issue whether they agree or not lots of people seem to be reading.

The bottom line for me is that Wigan RLFC enjoys a unique place in RL. Whether others like it or not Wigan RLFC is considered THE CLUB. Why? History/heritage combined with repeated cycles of success. It is those cycles of success that keep that unique place. It could have been Hunslet, it could have been Huddersfield but they both lost that opportunity. Wigan RLFC nearly lost / endangered that opportunity with a very mediocre decade in the 1970's and then the early 1980's. Whatever ML, JR, JH, TR did right or wrong we owe them a debt because that period of success rescued what defines Wigan RLFC what make this club unique and special. Now for nearly a decade our place / the very soul of what this club is has been threatened by mismanagement. These ever lengthening / more frequent periods of mediocrity place what matters increasingly at risk and what actually being proud to be Wigan is about. That special pride is not set in stone and it has to be earned / fought for. Otherwise Wigan RLFC become just another grand historic club. A club that may aswell be dead. That is the responsibility every custodian who takes temporary charge of this club has to meet.

Did you speak to 90% of the people in that room?
I went, i listened and i had my own thoughts
Just because some of us dont go on and on and make out we could solve the problems of our club does not mean we are gullable and stupid!! :conf:

I love the club, no matter what happens behind the scenes ( we will never know the truth) i will support them.

I.L cannot work miracles overnight and i think the same possibly goes for any other person!
He is the man with the power at the moment so we can only hope it goes well!!

[ancientnloyal]

Just a point regarding Lenagans personal/own money being pumped into the team...

It's a good idea, IMO, he isnt putting anything else in... we need to make a profit, to do that we must do it independant of IL's cheques... Wigan RL will obvious in time attract a profit and have funds available for players / set ups etc... we dont need a helping hand. Although he is our chairman and can easily build a new 'museum' or buy any player like Fielden for a record fee, it wont happen. We need to be seen to go it alone. With DW and ML it was easy, we could have anything we wanted from daves chequebook... its going to be hard initially with recruiting/ finding money for coaches but in time our club will run on its own without 'outside' help (ie IL's money).

[cpwigan]

One question for cpwigan though - how do you square your impression that IL would not be investing in the club, with the recent RFL statment that we are partial reliant on our major shareholder? These seem like contrasting if not conflicting statments to me. Perhaps IL's focus on increasing turnover is driven by the requirment to aim at an A license in 2010, rather than something more sinister.

I agree re the desire to achieve A status in 2010 The "A turnover of at least £4 million per annum" Any Club wants to meet that criteria. However, just to add a cautionary footnote. When the licence was due to be announced I seem to recall the propaganda eminating from the club was that the reason we did not meet that criteria was an accounting technicality and they were hoping the RFL would accept their POV. The comments at the forum seem to contradict that previous assertion. So which is true? Therein lies a problem the more you talk publically and say anything but the complete truth at all times the more likely you are to trip yourself up.

As I said at the time I do not understand the RFL being so obsessed with shareholder dependency. That is the way of the sporting world in the UK to the best of my knowledge and maybe in other countries. Simon Moran is the best thing that ever happened to Warrington, Leeds in their entirety owe a lot to a single person. You could go on and on. We knew anyway that our income for accounting purposes was heavily affected by Whelan being our owner and JJB owner. Free from that, it stands to reason sponsorship revenue and such like should improve. It is a non issue for me.

The one thing I do know is that the things I have been saying here for months and others too have suddenly become revelations because IL and JL have acknowledged them. A players development / career is critical. The whole cycle of player turnover that JL acknowledges is vital has to operate like a production line. Therein lies the crux. If I could see it, if others could see it why does it take IL / JL 6 months to realise that the problems I get bored repeating myself need addressing.

As an example, does anybody believe IL / JL did not know that most clubs have 3 conditioners or that our conditioning programmes were totally inadequate. Of course not. So why did they not act sooner? Why wait 6 months and another 6 months? That could be 10% of the career of every player at this club from academy to reserve to first team that the club has served inadequately. Those 80+ employees (players) are the KEY RESOURCE this club has and yet it chose to not invest immediately in them.

INVESTMENT has to be quality. Mike Forshaw is not a world renowned conditioner. If somebody is going to lead any aspects of our players development they must be world renowned. They have to be that good. If they are not then just putting 3 Mike Forshaws together produces 3 salaries and by and large the same standard of conditioning. The improvement in our key resource (players) will be negligible. Appoint a world renowned conditioner and the improvement in our players could be vast.

World class = expensive investment. The return is a far better squad, far better team, better results, better crowds, better revenue, a club becoming more self sufficient. However, all businesses struggle to invest solely from profit. So they borrow. Sports clubs can also borrow but they have another option philanthropic owners and if you want the best then you need owners who are prepared to dig deep.

If your owner will not dig deep you are forced to employ average ability coaching staff and even drag the process out over years to rectify. The return is a squad whose potential is not realised, a poorer team, worse results, lower crowds, less revenue unless you screw the remaining supporters and a club no nearer becoming self sufficient.

Start at the top and work down. Brian Noble is not a world renowned coach. NO British RL coach is world renowned. If you want world renowned he has to be an Australian NRL coach. Whatsmore, the day he become your coach, he starts to lose in terms of his own education. Away from the NRL his own education / development suffers. That is why 3 years is the maximum any such coach can remain here. The assistants? If your grooming them as future coaches they need to be going to the NRL periodically to develop additional skills.

Everything I have listened to re IL leads me to believe he is not prepared to do that. He paid his price by buying the club and allowing his to live 'his dream' However, he then drew a line. The difference is that the line he drew for himself, the % of his own income he is willing to commit is far far less than the % of Joe Bloggs Fans income that he wants him to commit. True fans do that, sporting passion and fan behaviour is illogical. Oh wait I thought IL was a fan yet he does not behave like one. That is why I say the only real fan owner that ever existed was Jack Walker.

Talk is cheap as they say and IL can certainly talk not that it would take much to convince most Wigan fans because like all fans they are illogical and they wanted to see DW / ML go. IL could have sold bottles of corporation pop labelled as holy Wigan RLFC water to 90% of the people who attended that forum.
I see an inherently conservative man living out his dream. That conservatism means one thing, slow change. Hoyle and Moran had Cullen out 10 minutes after the kick off when they lost in a similar fashion to Wigan v Huddersfield. End result fortunes improved. What do we do? Not a lot. Whatsmore, Huddersfield was not a one off. Wigan RLFC have not produced 1 ONE outstanding SL effort for the full 80 minutes in 2008. Worse, they have shown they can for 40 minutes, for 5 minutes, for 10 minutes.

Mike you are probably right re my approach but I am too annoyed to let it concern me. Whatsmore, at the opposite end of the spectrum and equally poor in approach is the weekly letter production in the WEP by Barbara and Jeanette. Just as there will be people will be saying oh CPs lost the plot again and not read the thread/post there are people saying oh another letter from Barbara and another from Jeanette and turning over that page in the WEP. That is the right of people. Nobody has to agree / even read what anybody else publishes.

However, on this issue whether they agree or not lots of people seem to be reading.

The bottom line for me is that Wigan RLFC enjoys a unique place in RL. Whether others like it or not Wigan RLFC is considered THE CLUB. Why? History/heritage combined with repeated cycles of success. It is those cycles of success that keep that unique place. It could have been Hunslet, it could have been Huddersfield but they both lost that opportunity. Wigan RLFC nearly lost / endangered that opportunity with a very mediocre decade in the 1970's and then the early 1980's. Whatever ML, JR, JH, TR did right or wrong we owe them a debt because that period of success rescued what defines Wigan RLFC what make this club unique and special. Now for nearly a decade our place / the very soul of what this club is has been threatened by mismanagement. These ever lengthening / more frequent periods of mediocrity place what matters increasingly at risk and what actually being proud to be Wigan is about. That special pride is not set in stone and it has to be earned / fought for. Otherwise Wigan RLFC become just another grand historic club. A club that may aswell be dead. That is the responsibility every custodian who takes temporary charge of this club has to meet.

Did you speak to 90% of the people in that room?
I went, i listened and i had my own thoughts
Just because some of us dont go on and on and make out we could solve the problems of our club does not mean we are gullable and stupid!! :conf:

I love the club, no matter what happens behind the scenes ( we will never know the truth) i will support them.

I.L cannot work miracles overnight and i think the same possibly goes for any other person!
He is the man with the power at the moment so we can only hope it goes well!!

Sorry but you just proved my point.

Are you a member of the Riversiders too?

[ancientnloyal]

Being a riversider doesnt mean anything.

We are all fans of Wigan RLFC... it doesnt matter whether your mate came along on a friday night to tag along and now enjoys the occasional game or been supporting wigan since 1940.

doesnt matter if you are in/out of the riversiders we're all equal and nobody is 'higher' up the chain as a supporter. Some may sell tickets, do fundraising or be nicey-nicey, it doesnt make them any better than the south stander friend on friday night.

[stacey c]

I agree re the desire to achieve A status in 2010 The "A turnover of at least £4 million per annum" Any Club wants to meet that criteria. However, just to add a cautionary footnote. When the licence was due to be announced I seem to recall the propaganda eminating from the club was that the reason we did not meet that criteria was an accounting technicality and they were hoping the RFL would accept their POV. The comments at the forum seem to contradict that previous assertion. So which is true? Therein lies a problem the more you talk publically and say anything but the complete truth at all times the more likely you are to trip yourself up.

As I said at the time I do not understand the RFL being so obsessed with shareholder dependency. That is the way of the sporting world in the UK to the best of my knowledge and maybe in other countries. Simon Moran is the best thing that ever happened to Warrington, Leeds in their entirety owe a lot to a single person. You could go on and on. We knew anyway that our income for accounting purposes was heavily affected by Whelan being our owner and JJB owner. Free from that, it stands to reason sponsorship revenue and such like should improve. It is a non issue for me.

The one thing I do know is that the things I have been saying here for months and others too have suddenly become revelations because IL and JL have acknowledged them. A players development / career is critical. The whole cycle of player turnover that JL acknowledges is vital has to operate like a production line. Therein lies the crux. If I could see it, if others could see it why does it take IL / JL 6 months to realise that the problems I get bored repeating myself need addressing.

As an example, does anybody believe IL / JL did not know that most clubs have 3 conditioners or that our conditioning programmes were totally inadequate. Of course not. So why did they not act sooner? Why wait 6 months and another 6 months? That could be 10% of the career of every player at this club from academy to reserve to first team that the club has served inadequately. Those 80+ employees (players) are the KEY RESOURCE this club has and yet it chose to not invest immediately in them.

INVESTMENT has to be quality. Mike Forshaw is not a world renowned conditioner. If somebody is going to lead any aspects of our players development they must be world renowned. They have to be that good. If they are not then just putting 3 Mike Forshaws together produces 3 salaries and by and large the same standard of conditioning. The improvement in our key resource (players) will be negligible. Appoint a world renowned conditioner and the improvement in our players could be vast.

World class = expensive investment. The return is a far better squad, far better team, better results, better crowds, better revenue, a club becoming more self sufficient. However, all businesses struggle to invest solely from profit. So they borrow. Sports clubs can also borrow but they have another option philanthropic owners and if you want the best then you need owners who are prepared to dig deep.

If your owner will not dig deep you are forced to employ average ability coaching staff and even drag the process out over years to rectify. The return is a squad whose potential is not realised, a poorer team, worse results, lower crowds, less revenue unless you screw the remaining supporters and a club no nearer becoming self sufficient.

Start at the top and work down. Brian Noble is not a world renowned coach. NO British RL coach is world renowned. If you want world renowned he has to be an Australian NRL coach. Whatsmore, the day he become your coach, he starts to lose in terms of his own education. Away from the NRL his own education / development suffers. That is why 3 years is the maximum any such coach can remain here. The assistants? If your grooming them as future coaches they need to be going to the NRL periodically to develop additional skills.

Everything I have listened to re IL leads me to believe he is not prepared to do that. He paid his price by buying the club and allowing his to live 'his dream' However, he then drew a line. The difference is that the line he drew for himself, the % of his own income he is willing to commit is far far less than the % of Joe Bloggs Fans income that he wants him to commit. True fans do that, sporting passion and fan behaviour is illogical. Oh wait I thought IL was a fan yet he does not behave like one. That is why I say the only real fan owner that ever existed was Jack Walker.

Talk is cheap as they say and IL can certainly talk not that it would take much to convince most Wigan fans because like all fans they are illogical and they wanted to see DW / ML go. IL could have sold bottles of corporation pop labelled as holy Wigan RLFC water to 90% of the people who attended that forum.
I see an inherently conservative man living out his dream. That conservatism means one thing, slow change. Hoyle and Moran had Cullen out 10 minutes after the kick off when they lost in a similar fashion to Wigan v Huddersfield. End result fortunes improved. What do we do? Not a lot. Whatsmore, Huddersfield was not a one off. Wigan RLFC have not produced 1 ONE outstanding SL effort for the full 80 minutes in 2008. Worse, they have shown they can for 40 minutes, for 5 minutes, for 10 minutes.

Mike you are probably right re my approach but I am too annoyed to let it concern me. Whatsmore, at the opposite end of the spectrum and equally poor in approach is the weekly letter production in the WEP by Barbara and Jeanette. Just as there will be people will be saying oh CPs lost the plot again and not read the thread/post there are people saying oh another letter from Barbara and another from Jeanette and turning over that page in the WEP. That is the right of people. Nobody has to agree / even read what anybody else publishes.

However, on this issue whether they agree or not lots of people seem to be reading.

The bottom line for me is that Wigan RLFC enjoys a unique place in RL. Whether others like it or not Wigan RLFC is considered THE CLUB. Why? History/heritage combined with repeated cycles of success. It is those cycles of success that keep that unique place. It could have been Hunslet, it could have been Huddersfield but they both lost that opportunity. Wigan RLFC nearly lost / endangered that opportunity with a very mediocre decade in the 1970's and then the early 1980's. Whatever ML, JR, JH, TR did right or wrong we owe them a debt because that period of success rescued what defines Wigan RLFC what make this club unique and special. Now for nearly a decade our place / the very soul of what this club is has been threatened by mismanagement. These ever lengthening / more frequent periods of mediocrity place what matters increasingly at risk and what actually being proud to be Wigan is about. That special pride is not set in stone and it has to be earned / fought for. Otherwise Wigan RLFC become just another grand historic club. A club that may aswell be dead. That is the responsibility every custodian who takes temporary charge of this club has to meet.

Did you speak to 90% of the people in that room?
I went, i listened and i had my own thoughts
Just because some of us dont go on and on and make out we could solve the problems of our club does not mean we are gullable and stupid!! :conf:

I love the club, no matter what happens behind the scenes ( we will never know the truth) i will support them.

I.L cannot work miracles overnight and i think the same possibly goes for any other person!
He is the man with the power at the moment so we can only hope it goes well!!

Sorry but you just proved my point.

Are you a member of the Riversiders too?

NO!!
Meaning?
Dont try to twist everthing around to your way of thinking :conf:
We all have an opinion - even if you dont like it!!
Does I.l. tell you how to do your job?
You are no better than the rest of the people on this board, no matter how much you try to belittle.
At the end of the day its not upto you!! Thankgod!!
Also if you were right before you went tothe meeting and knew it was going to be a waste of time, no answers etc, etc, Why go??
Not that smart - you wasted £2 :conf:
Maybe next time a forum is planned , you could give us all the answers and save us all some money :eh:

[cpwigan]

Did you speak to 90% of the people in that room?
I went, i listened and i had my own thoughts
Just because some of us dont go on and on and make out we could solve the problems of our club does not mean we are gullable and stupid!! :conf:

I love the club, no matter what happens behind the scenes ( we will never know the truth) i will support them.

I.L cannot work miracles overnight and i think the same possibly goes for any other person!
He is the man with the power at the moment so we can only hope it goes well!!

Sorry but you just proved my point.

Are you a member of the Riversiders too?

NO!!
Meaning?
Dont try to twist everthing around to your way of thinking :conf:
We all have an opinion - even if you dont like it!!
Does I.l. tell you how to do your job?
You are no better than the rest of the people on this board, no matter how much you try to belittle.
At the end of the day its not upto you!! Thankgod!!
Also if you were right before you went tothe meeting and knew it was going to be a waste of time, no answers etc, etc, Why go??
Not that smart - you wasted £2 :conf:
Maybe next time a forum is planned , you could give us all the answers and save us all some money :eh:

I said post meeting that it was a waste of time. Read before you type. The fact that I went and listened and came to that conclusion is a learning process. £2 Trust me I, you everybody else has wasted far more this season. Just to make you feel better, I gave up a few more days in excellent company, travelled down from Scotland on the day so you can be even happier.

I have given you the answers. Read

However, just to give you some balance. The so called belittling? There was a fan who held a contrary view to 90% of you there. He made an excellent point about set moves and spoke about scrums, he then made a comment about Pat Richards falling to the floor at every scrum. Anybody with an ounce of intelligence knew exactly what he meant. Namely that at every scrum the fullback be it Richards or whomever stands in the stand off slot and takes a non entity settler carry on the first tackle from every scrum. He did not phrase it perfectly but that is what he meant. The 90% jumped all over him groaning like a pack BELITTLING him.

N.B I do not know that person but he was treated shabbily and that was the atmosphere throughout that evening whenver anybody dared stray from the party line. You could even make moronic statements / ask pointless questions as long as they were the party line.

[stacey c]

Sorry but you just proved my point.

Are you a member of the Riversiders too?

NO!!
Meaning?
Dont try to twist everthing around to your way of thinking :conf:
We all have an opinion - even if you dont like it!!
Does I.l. tell you how to do your job?
You are no better than the rest of the people on this board, no matter how much you try to belittle.
At the end of the day its not upto you!! Thankgod!!
Also if you were right before you went tothe meeting and knew it was going to be a waste of time, no answers etc, etc, Why go??
Not that smart - you wasted £2 :conf:
Maybe next time a forum is planned , you could give us all the answers and save us all some money :eh:

I said post meeting that it was a waste of time. Read before you type. The fact that I went and listened and came to that conclusion is a learning process. £2 Trust me I, you everybody else has wasted far more this season. Just to make you feel better, I gave up a few more days in excellent company, travelled down from Scotland on the day so you can be even happier.

I have given you the answers. Read

However, just to give you some balance. The so called belittling? There was a fan who held a contrary view to 90% of you there. He made an excellent point about set moves and spoke about scrums, he then made a comment about Pat Richards falling to the floor at every scrum. Anybody with an ounce of intelligence knew exactly what he meant. Namely that at every scrum the fullback be it Richards or whomever stands in the stand off slot and takes a non entity settler carry on the first tackle from every scrum. He did not phrase it perfectly but that is what he meant. The 90% jumped all over him groaning like a pack BELITTLING him. N.B I do not know that person but he was treated shabbily and that was the atmosphere throughout that evening whenver anybody dared stray from the party line. You could even make moronic statements / ask pointless questions as long as they were the party line.

Too which I was not one!!
Dont tar us all with the same brush
Believe it or not I also believed there was a lot of pointless questions... i.e. Mathers?
I.L. was in a no win situation, if he slated a player, he would be slated, he said no comment - he got slated!!
I did not go to hear that every 1 of Wigans problems have been sorted and and neither did i go to praise a man that does not deserve it - I am simply saying I intend to give him a chance, if my love for the club , the shirt, the history ( not the current management) does make me a bit gullable, in that i believe we will get better eventually - then so what?
:conf: :conf:

[Red Hot Mama]

CP I don't know you but I do question your reasoning. I undersand your frustration BUT in this thread I have yet to read anything positive towards the club. You seem to have a real problem with Ian Lenegan. However, not everyone shares your view, that does not make them idiots. You refer to our clubs great history. Unfortunately that is what it is -history. We are dealing with the here and now. Whilst we believe we are the greatest club in the game our history will not get us out of this mess. We do not have a devine right to win. No one can take away from the club what past teams have achieved but that is not going to help us here. I believe that 99.9% of the people that post on here have wigan in their blood and just because they happen to disagree with your opinion does not make them morons. I think the least you can do is give the new board a chance (in that I mean more than the 6 months they have had). I don't see what good you protoesting and ranting on here is doing except for winding yourself and other people up. We all pay the same as you to watch the debacle we have witnessed of late and we all wish to see wonderful flowing rugby with fantastic wins especially over Saints but more particularly over mediocre teams like Huddersfield. Invest your energy in backing the players and management or would you prefer we go back to Whelan and Lindsay? I am not clever with words in the same way you are and you will probably come on here and rip me to shreds but I know that come Friday night I will be there to cheer the players on and off the pitch and just hope that we have something to cheer about.