cpwigan

[weststand-rich]

I spoke to somebody at the club a while ago about mental steel and they conceded the burn in the players wasn't the same as in the 'good old days'. They didn't say it was missing, but admitted it was different.

With the really great players we've had over the years you could see that part of their steel wasn't just loving winning. Everybody loves winning - it's great. It was that perhaps (even more so) they loathed losing. Andy Farrell had that. You could almost smell it coming off him when a game was going against us. In our current crop of players, I'd guess a handful have that near autistic focus.

Great attitude goes beyond this though. When Tiger Woods won his first open by a record 10 strokes somebody asked him at a press conference what his plans were (meaning holidays). He said he needed to improve on his golf swing. To win the Tour de France, Lance Armstrong moved to France, spent 6 hours a day riding, practised on the routes so he knew them inside out and then weighed every single thing he ate to make sure his weight was perfect for riding. When Chris Hoy wins a race the first question he'll often ask is what went wrong?

I'm not being hyper critical of our current squad, but you just don't get the impression that this is what they are like. Some are, but as a collective no.

[ian b]

Rich as we both say inclusion and excellence should go hand in hand. We are a nation(s) of fat gits. However, nobody is adressing the issue. Every schoolchild should have a lesson of physical fitness timetabled daily at Pimary Level and Once a week at Secondary School ON TOP OF NORMAL PE lessons. The big picture is the way British people want to live is too costly to sustain and both incredibly wasteful and unproductive.

i agree about the uk population being obese and i would say lazy in a lot of cases but the aussies are apparently the biggest drinkers on the planet and they still produce winners

[WiganWarrior]

The points mentioned about what Rads says in his book are spot on. i have only just managed to read it but he seems to give a very honest insight into were the problems lie in the club and the lack or respect / hunger to win that is missing.

i can honestly believe that Rads having involvement at the club at a youth level can only be a good thing

if anyone hasnt yet read his book i would highly recommend it

[pedro]

The salary cap is a real double edged sword for me. I personally feel that it's a bit too low. Some more cash around the club for the bigger signings would be nice. However, if there was more money at the club, would that mean that the current high earning players would be on even more, keeping them at the club and we could get higher rated Aussies and Kiwis? But would that in turn stifle youth development, by not giving the youngsters a chance in the First Team???

Secondly, I'm not convinced that the standard has got worse since the 80s. I was watching the 1985 Wigan v Hull CC Final the other day and we concluded that if you pitched that Wigan team against the current Wigan Team, the current team would put at least 40 points on them. This is purely down to physical conditioning and fitness. But not necessarily skill. I do believe though that our players are as skillfull as Kenny, Gill, Edwards and alike but defences are so much better now. The above people would be eaten alive by some defences these days.

I suppose it's all down to how you categorise standards. In terms of which are the better teams. Now or in the 80s. Today's teams are miles ahead. Whether it's better to watch is another story entirely.

watched a game from 94 just...not many if nay would get in that team and they would hammer any team in the league these days. They were fit, big and fast. None of our pack could get in that team or backs to be honest.

[exile in Tiger country]

When I have time I will put a proper response together. However;

Wigan Assistant Conditioner is called Mick Turner

However, it is important we do not make excuses or ignore the truth which is the prevalent habit of British citizens today IMO.

National Sport is a red herring God. The facts are Australia is a much smaller country population wise than the UK. The total population of Australia is 21 million approx. The two states were RL is the most popular sport are NSW with a population of 7 million and Queensland with a population of 4 million. Is it the National Sport? Victorians, Southern, Western australians would say not. Victorias now has the Storm but they are miniscule in the sporting psyche of Victorians compared to Aussie Rules.

The UK has a population of 61 million, 61 million compared to 21 million and yet Australia regularly out peform the U.K at numerous sports. It defies logic that a country with a population so much bigger cannot compete with a young country like Australia. Sport after sport the Australians do better than the U.K If it was simply money, profile, facilities then why have they done so much better at say Tennis? IIRC Netball/Hockey ?

Something is badly wrong with the British Psyche. We have become limp wristed bar our armed forces who stay true to their old standards. Everything is dumbed down, look at Education, GCSEs are worthless now. Look at the mentality of sport. Inclusion/participation is everything. The pursuit of excellence has been lost in the U.K. British people accept their lot far too readily. As far as sport goes we are desperate people. We cheer anything and everything, a single effort is rewarded and hailed as miraculous, individuals are elevated to God like status for doing very little. The majority of people are in denial. They would rather not face the truth. Especially when the truth is not pleasant. So before we do anything we have to change the mentality.

And the poulation of the real Heartland areas of RL (Lancashre, Cumbria, and those over the hill won't be markedly different to the main areas of RL in Aus, however RL is far more popular in those Aussie areas. I grew up in Middleton, which at the time was a bus ride away from Wigan (service 401) and it was only through sky tv about 5 years ago I discovered the wonder that is Rugby League.
Our schools didn't play rugby, the Catholic schools played union. The team you supported was City, Oldham, Rochdale or the red cheats. So comparably the Australians are exposed to more RL at an early age.

[right cross]

The points mentioned about what Rads says in his book are spot on. i have only just managed to read it but he seems to give a very honest insight into were the problems lie in the club and the lack or respect / hunger to win that is missing.

i can honestly believe that Rads having involvement at the club at a youth level can only be a good thing

if anyone hasnt yet read his book i would highly recommend it

i recently attended the kit presentation for the scholership lads and noble was there lockers , the coaches and various other people ,and most got up to give a small speach ,there was one other person there who when he stood up and started his speach gave me and know doubt most people there a feeling of 'this lad is going to make wigan the team it once was' what he said and how he said it that night was to me inspireing to say the least ,his name is Kris Radlinski,

so people rest assured our young lads are in very very good hands ,

Kris :eusa2: :eusa2: and thankyou .

[cpwigan]

When I have time I will put a proper response together. However;

Wigan Assistant Conditioner is called Mick Turner

However, it is important we do not make excuses or ignore the truth which is the prevalent habit of British citizens today IMO.

National Sport is a red herring God. The facts are Australia is a much smaller country population wise than the UK. The total population of Australia is 21 million approx. The two states were RL is the most popular sport are NSW with a population of 7 million and Queensland with a population of 4 million. Is it the National Sport? Victorians, Southern, Western australians would say not. Victorias now has the Storm but they are miniscule in the sporting psyche of Victorians compared to Aussie Rules.

The UK has a population of 61 million, 61 million compared to 21 million and yet Australia regularly out peform the U.K at numerous sports. It defies logic that a country with a population so much bigger cannot compete with a young country like Australia. Sport after sport the Australians do better than the U.K If it was simply money, profile, facilities then why have they done so much better at say Tennis? IIRC Netball/Hockey ?

Something is badly wrong with the British Psyche. We have become limp wristed bar our armed forces who stay true to their old standards. Everything is dumbed down, look at Education, GCSEs are worthless now. Look at the mentality of sport. Inclusion/participation is everything. The pursuit of excellence has been lost in the U.K. British people accept their lot far too readily. As far as sport goes we are desperate people. We cheer anything and everything, a single effort is rewarded and hailed as miraculous, individuals are elevated to God like status for doing very little. The majority of people are in denial. They would rather not face the truth. Especially when the truth is not pleasant. So before we do anything we have to change the mentality.

And the poulation of the real Heartland areas of RL (Lancashre, Cumbria, and those over the hill won't be markedly different to the main areas of RL in Aus, however RL is far more popular in those Aussie areas. I grew up in Middleton, which at the time was a bus ride away from Wigan (service 401) and it was only through sky tv about 5 years ago I discovered the wonder that is Rugby League.
Our schools didn't play rugby, the Catholic schools played union. The team you supported was City, Oldham, Rochdale or the red cheats. So comparably the Australians are exposed to more RL at an early age.

Excile the point is that a country with 61 million people cannot argue that a country with 21 million has the bases loaded in their favour. Indeed, until the late 1950's / 60's the Australians were learning about RFL from us. Even in the early to mid 70's they still felt they had something to learn from Britain / U.K. Unless I have missed a sport, I cannot think of any sport now where Britain leads the way in terms of methodology / implementation. Lots of money are put into sport in this country too.

As Rich start everybody likes winning but the true winners hate losing far more than loving winning and that is their drive. The great Wigan teams talked about the fear of defeat driving them on. It was the same with the Kangaroo tours after 1982. The fear coupled with the ability to play under pressure, to make the right decisions under pressure is the be all and end all.

We are soft and mentally weak whereas many of the British sporting teams of say the 60's were anything but.

[weststand-rich]

Unless I have missed a sport, I cannot think of any sport now where Britain leads the way in terms of methodology / implementation. Lots of money are put into sport in this country too.

I'll stick up for good old GB. To see where we do excel follow some of the recent lottery funding from SportUk.

Track cycling and rowing we really do lead the world. And the current Triathlon world champ is British and only 21. So it is possible .......

[cpwigan]

You will know more than I do Rich but wasn't the key coach in rowing a foreign coach. I know nothing of cycling.

[pedro]

German CP hes still there