Darrell Goulding

[DaveO]

DaveO - Cannot really be bothered to read into much of your speculative post

Well that's one excuse for not having any answers I suppose

(like mine are I admit) but I feel mine have more basis to them on what has happened to previous players (Higham for example) where they were told they could play for a contract etc. This has simply appeared "out of nowhere" at the season's end??? I think not.

What happened to Higham has nothing to do with this situation in the slightest as far as I can see. Higham wanted a new deal, was told he could play for one when clearly his future was decided and he left when none was forthcoming. Neither the club nor Higham had an option for a further year so the similarity between the two situations is virtually zero.

Who (if any of them) simply sat on their backside and did not negotiate and plan for the future? Just waiting idly for the season to finish before wondering IF Wigan might be interested in utilising the option YOU claim Wigan had - not for the only player at Wigan to act upon himself!

You seem to be going round in circles. I said he would be dim not to look at other offers so we agree on this don't we? It is common sense he does this but I fail to see what difference him doing that makes to whatever happens with Wigan.

In effect Wigan are just like any other club he would negotiate with with one BIG exception and that is Wigan had the opportunity to sign him up for a year if they wished and there is nothing he could have done about it had they exercised that option.

If they have missed that deadline and as a result he leaves because he gets a two year deal elsewhere it will be a huge error on Wigan's part IMO.

Finally, the most important point you fail to raise (because you know you cannot get around it) is that George IS a quota player and if resigned for another 2 years (along with the other mediocre overseas - Riddell/Roberts) will seriously hamper squad strengthening at a time that the most expensive players (salary cap wise) are about to depart!

You need to get your facts right. George is NOT a quota player. His is a none federation trained player. He has a Samoan passport (remember him getting it so we could sign Roberts, who is quota, a year early?) and this means he is none quota.

Our quota players are:

Riddell, Roberts and Phelps (out of contract at the end of next season).

Our none federation trained players are:

Carmont and Feka (out of contract at the end of next season)

Richards has an EC passport and gets federation trained status anyway and so does Bailey. TL is considered "home grown" despite being a kiwi international.

We are allowed 6 none federation players in 2010 and 5 in 2011 so his status is hardly problematic.

So, no more overseas for signing 34 year old centres who some, are overly sentimental about, when the club already has, and should be using more of, ready made replacements in Goulding and Thornley, especially with the new incoming coach.

He isn't 34, he's 31! And it is nothing do with sentimentality and everything to do with being able to spot a quality player when I see one.

What would be achieved by resigning players in the twilight of their careers just as MM attempts to forge a team/playing style of out of these players who are about to leave/retire at the same time as his contract expires and he moves on himself?

Players come and go all the time so what's your point?

We have re-signed Coley and apparently Bailey. Carmont is better than either player.

Several players are off contract at the end of 2010 so is MM going to see working with them as pointless?

What a waste that would be! Result - no legacy.

I have no idea what you mean by that but I do know this.

We are not in such a good position with the squad to be letting a quality player like Carmont go and have the ability to replece him from within.

In a couple of years we might be but if he leaves our centres will be Gleeson and Goulding with the untried Thornley in reserve. That is it and if you think Goulding is ready to fill Georges shoes you are living in cloud cukoo land.

I like Goulding as a player and think he has been unlucky to get dropped at times under Noble but he is not up to Carmonts level yet by some distance.

If we let Carmont leave and sign a replacement from outside then Goulding and Thornley may as well leave with him.

Dave

[Kittwazzer]

Can anyone make sense out of all of DaveO's, Butt Monkey's and Matthew's quote splitting to work out what their views are on Darrell Goulding? Or George Carmont for that matter, who's future they have decided to discuss at length on a totally unrelated thread? Sure as hell I can't!!

DaveO's infernal preoccupation with showing off his 'post-splitting' talents now seems to be rubbing off on other people.

I don't find it the least bit helpful. If DaveO does it just the once per thread, that is OK and I can follow it. I simply feel like I have had my homework marked by one of those teachers with leather elbow patches on his sports jacket who has no life outside of school.

But, as Matthew and Butt Monkey have proven, when 2 more people join in the game on the same thread, the thread, loses its 'thread' Which leaves the entire thread unfathomable!!

Anybody else care to comment on this?

[Matthew]

In short:

Buttmonkey thinks that George is not worth a two year contract and has been "blackmailing" the club. It is his opinion that we should let him go.

Dave thinks that George should be retained and is undecided (I think) about Goulding.

I think that George should be retained and that to let him go would be a huge mistake. Furthermore I doubt whether Goulding will rediscover the form and promise he showed in the juniors.

As an aside; it is not totally unrelated as Goulding's ability is a factor as to whether George is retained and so comparisons between the two are part of the thread.

This is not the first time for "post splitting" for me. Mike and I once had a debate on the validity of having Les Catalans in Super League - and if I remember correctly that went on for about 5 pages!

Now, where did I put my sports jacket and red biro?

[Kittwazzer]

Thanks for the precis!

[lucky 13]

Can anyone make sense out of all of DaveO's, Butt Monkey's and Matthew's quote splitting to work out what their views are on Darrell Goulding? Or George Carmont for that matter, who's future they have decided to discuss at length on a totally unrelated thread? Sure as hell I can't!!

I sort of know what they are going on about, I have had many happy hours(days) reading Dave's quotes

DaveO's infernal preoccupation with showing off his 'post-splitting' talents now seems to be rubbing off on other people.

Yes gets a bit much and then every Tom Dick n Harry does it like some mini Dave.

I don't find it the least bit helpful.

Me neither.

If DaveO does it just the once per thread, that is OK and I can follow it.

Spot on

I simply feel like I have had my homework marked by one of those teachers with leather elbow patches on his sports jacket who has no life outside of school.

Think your getting mixed up thats CP

But, as Matthew and Butt Monkey have proven, when 2 more people join in the game on the same thread, the thread, loses its 'thread' Which leaves the entire thread unfathomable!!

Anybody else care to comment on this?

Yes could we stop it I find it's very catching I think some dont even relise they have the bug

[GeoffN]

So to make things crystal clear here is a question:

Please list the players in Wigan's first team, that you think have had a better season than George.

Completely beside the point. The real question is not who was better in 2009, but who do we think will be better in 2011. No-one (as far as I have seen) has said don't keep him, all we're saying is keep him for just one year, not two - and the same applies to pretty much any player in their 30's, regardless of how good they have been.

At the end of the day, it's a judgement call on how long he can last at the top level, and the club will have much more information (doctors, physios, trainers etc) on his condition than we do.

[Matthew]

Completely beside the point. The real question is not who was better in 2009, but who do we think will be better in 2011. No-one (as far as I have seen) has said don't keep him, all we're saying is keep him for just one year, not two - and the same applies to pretty much any player in their 30's, regardless of how good they have been.

At the end of the day, it's a judgement call on how long he can last at the top level, and the club will have much more information (doctors, physios, trainers etc) on his condition than we do.

Again I disagree

The option to keep George for just one season is not available (be that expired deadline or whatever)

The real question is:

Is it a greater risk to let George go; rather than keep him for an extra year?

Considering his input over the last two years and the squad as it stands for next year I think that we should give him the contract.

[DaveO]

Completely beside the point. The real question is not who was better in 2009, but who do we think will be better in 2011. No-one (as far as I have seen) has said don't keep him, all we're saying is keep him for just one year, not two - and the same applies to pretty much any player in their 30's, regardless of how good they have been.

At the end of the day, it's a judgement call on how long he can last at the top level, and the club will have much more information (doctors, physios, trainers etc) on his condition than we do.

Again I disagree

The option to keep George for just one season is not available (be that expired deadline or whatever)

The real question is:

Is it a greater risk to let George go; rather than keep him for an extra year?

Considering his input over the last two years and the squad as it stands for next year I think that we should give him the contract.

That is what it boils down to. It is not, IMO, the time to start being ruthless with the 30 something's in the squad as we once were as a club and most Aussie sides currently are.

I have been resigned for some time given what IL has said we won't be signing anyone for next season but I had not thought we would go into it weaker than we are now which we would be if we let Carmont go. It makes MM & SW's job all the harder.

I think its a real spanner in the works his contract situation has got to this stage however it got here.

His role was surely to keep the centre spot warm for another 12 months while Goulding and Thornley but that option has seemingly gone so now its what is best for the team be that him leaving or him staying for 2 years.

Even if he didn't play a game in year two of his contract I think he is important enough to retain for one more season I'd give him the two years anyway.

Dave

[Kittwazzer]

Even if he didn't play a game in year two of his contract I think he is important enough to retain for one more season I'd give him the two years anyway.Dave

So would I!!

[exile in Tiger country]

For what it' worth, I read Butt monkey's post as thinking George was mediocre, but that's just down to punctuation and grammar, however to get back to the point, I don't see Goulding as a good enough player for Wigan and think George will last two seasons, as others have said, play him less in 2011 whilst his 2010 understudy gets more game time.