Riddell

[cpwigan]

You have still not said if you rate Piggy and if so why?

Do you think he would get a gig in the NRL in 2010?

[ellery 4 coach]

like i said he came over here injured, he looked out off condition so maybe new coaching team can bring him round, i will leave my decision till march

[ellery 4 coach]

look how most people on here slated tim smith i heard 2 or 3 big clubs are on his trail

[GeoffN]

Riddell's previous form is pretty irrelevant, really, compared to his full season with us, which the vast majority are prepared to admit was poor.

From his reputation, and what he's said so far, I'm confident that MM won't put up with sub-par performances from anyone, though, especially in a position where we do have genuine competition for places, so I'd say Riddell either improves dramatically or doesn't play.
On last season's form he's our third choice hooker, it's up to him to show, in training and in the friendlies, why he should be picked ahead of Macca or Tommy.

[ellery 4 coach]

i think its a new start for everybody and we should justlet mm do his job we shall soonsee what type of coach he is

[cpwigan]

Tim is playing in the Queensland Cup Ellery. I think Tim's injury was the saving of our 2009 season. Surely you do not think Sam should have been kept in reserves for even longer?

2010 Pre season and Piggy is not here. He cannot blame Noble / Forshaw. Moreover when he arrived he in 2009 he struggled to train full out for 2009 IMO because his body is no longer up to it. You cannot abuse your body and expect to play at the top level IMO.

If he is great I will gladly hold my hands up and say so. I just hope MM gets an opportunity as a hooker and maybe Tommy Lu Lu.

IMO, the senior players let us down in 2009. The youngsters never did.

[Sutty]

Tim is playing in the Queensland Cup Ellery. I think Tim's injury was the saving of our 2009 season. Surely you do not think Sam should have been kept in reserves for even longer?

2010 Pre season and Piggy is not here. He cannot blame Noble / Forshaw. Moreover when he arrived he in 2009 he struggled to train full out for 2009 IMO because his body is no longer up to it. You cannot abuse your body and expect to play at the top level IMO.

If he is great I will gladly hold my hands up and say so. I just hope MM gets an opportunity as a hooker and maybe Tommy Lu Lu.

IMO, the senior players let us down in 2009. The youngsters never did.

I agree with nearly everything you've said.
Although, if you want to know how much crap someone can put into and do to their body, read Sean Longs book (if you haven't already). He comes across as a complete drunk (for large parts of his career)and someone who holds himself in pretty high regard.
Nowhere near the same sort of personal character as Rads. That's just based on my opinions from what I have read in both of their respective books.

[Kittwazzer]

anyone else heard riddell wont be a wigan player next season?

Getting back to the original question. We are aware that he is still on honeymoon, but has anyone else heard a rumour that he might not return?

[DaveO]

Geoff. if you go back through the posts on virtually every page during the season it became habit to trash player. Riddell took the brunt of it. I am sorry but I cannot see any player lift his game in that atmosphere. I am sure on a couple of occasions Riddell was nominated as a candidate for MOM. Whether he ever got the final vote I don't know. Maybe he is here as a cheap replacemnet for MH. We don't know his wages. Mathers was wasted by the WW fans. Any supporter who barracks their own player as he goes for a high bomb has to question his/her loyalties. I still maintain there is a wide margin between the harrassment the players receive on here and constructive criticism. I don't need to be a happy clapper to come to that conclussion. I do look for a win but I don't take an infantile strop when we loose.
Jim

You see it as trashing, Jim, the rest of see it as valid criticisms of players that are not up to an adequate standard. We don't suddenly decide that certain players can do nothing right, we watch how they perform and rate them on their performances - the same applies equally to Fielden, Pryce, Roberts, any you care to name. Even Feca, despite being such a crowd favourite, is not exempt from criticism on his fitness, nor is Pat for his relatively poor goalkicking this season.

Similarly, most of us don't decide a player can do no wrong either; we praise the likes of Sam, Pat, George based on their performances. Apart from anything else, surely it would devalue that praise if it was given to all players indiscriminately, regardless of performance?

Your point about Mathers is wide of the mark, too - the eventual barracking only came about after repeat failures under high balls; earlier on it was more of a collective apprehensive holding of breath...again you misplace cause and effect. The howlers caused the barracking, not the other way around - and he still received generous applause on the increasingly rarer occasions he did catch one.

Pointing out that players have aspects of their game that need improving, or indeed that another player might be a better option in that position, should be taken by any professional player as a reason to improve, which is what we all hope for for the benefit of the team.

Lenagan & McGuire have, quite rightly, not named names when they pointed out that 2 or 3 players aren't as fit as they should be, but I think it's pretty clear to everyone who those players are.

Agree 100%.

In particular one of the main points Jim doesn't realise is that players are not routinely barracked at matches but IMO the opposite is true.

By this I mean when a player who has been poor does something good the crowd are very quick to cheer and encourage the player. In my opinion the crowd was willing Mathers to succeed and any bit of good play was seized upon as a potential sign he had turned a corner.

Another good example last season was Roberts. The crowd was willing him to take players on and while I don't think he did this enough when he did some good play the crowd was generous in their applause and support.

At the match the crowd is vastly different than this or any other forum is when the forum is dissecting performances after a game.

The crowd at Wigan is IMO very knowledgeable and can tell when a player is giving 100% and struggling compared to a player who looks just bas bad as a struggling player but who does so because the effort is not there. Piggy got the cheers when he played well but I think the crowds opinion of him was of a player who could not be bothered most of the time and that opinion came about because of how he played and for no other reason.

Dave

[Sutty]

As an aside, I've just been reading this article from the WEP about Bailey, but right at the bottom there's a couple of lines from Maguire about Riddell. It sums up what most of us are already saying on here.

http://www.wigantoday.net/warriors/Bail ... 5859994.jp

"Mark Riddell has to do a lot of hard work to get himself fit, but when he's up and running, he's a very good player."