Gleeson, lack of professionalism, non/unfair reaction by fans !!!

[cpwigan]

RL clubs have no choice, players are sacked automatically when they are found to have been tested positive for drugs. At all other times they have a choice and in that respect Dave O you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Every club ignores what is happening as long as it never becomes public knowledge so moral crusades are for gullible fans. The reality is clubs turn a blind eye in all sports towards players as long as they seem to be doing it on the pitch. Morality and sport is an oxymoron other than in the romantic notions of the paying spectators.

Gareth Hock has benefitted as a man / as a person from his ban. He has received help and is doing well at the present time. As Rich points out for a long time his antics were ignored as long as he did it on the pitch. Just as they were for Andy Greg, Joey Johns and umpteen others. Look at Gleeson a repeat offender but always a club willing to take him. Look at when Wigan knew a player was indulging. He was moved on discreetly despite most people knowiong in Wigan what was happening.

The sport / fans don't care what happens to players. Players are packages of meat. Green Vigo? Andy Greg? what a legend Gary Connolly was? blah blah blah They are adults is the line brought out for such people / sad endings.

At every club in every sport there are alcoholics and drug users. Players know it / clubs know it BUT everybody pretends otherwise. Governing bodies attack those who dare say so and fans ignore it lest is spoils the romance of their chosen sport apart from the odd vindictive oddity.

Gareth Hock was a separate entity and a former employee of Wigan RLFC nearly 2 years ago. Geoff was correct in his initial post.

[cpwigan]

Moderators please, can you have a look at the post on 16.02

[Wigan_forever1985]

RL clubs have no choice, players are sacked automatically when they are found to have been tested positive for drugs. At all other times they have a choice and in that respect Dave O you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Every club ignores what is happening as long as it never becomes public knowledge so moral crusades are for gullible fans. The reality is clubs turn a blind eye in all sports towards players as long as they seem to be doing it on the pitch. Morality and sport is an oxymoron other than in the romantic notions of the paying spectators.

Gareth Hock has benefitted as a man / as a person from his ban. He has received help and is doing well at the present time. As Rich points out for a long time his antics were ignored as long as he did it on the pitch. Just as they were for Andy Greg, Joey Johns and umpteen others. Look at Gleeson a repeat offender but always a club willing to take him. Look at when Wigan knew a player was indulging. He was moved on discreetly despite most people knowiong in Wigan what was happening.

The sport / fans don't care what happens to players. Players are packages of meat. Green Vigo? Andy Greg? what a legend Gary Connolly was? blah blah blah They are adults is the line brought out for such people / sad endings.

At every club in every sport there are alcoholics and drug users. Players know it / clubs know it BUT everybody pretends otherwise. Governing bodies attack those who dare say so and fans ignore it lest is spoils the romance of their chosen sport apart from the odd vindictive oddity.

Gareth Hock was a separate entity and a former employee of Wigan RLFC nearly 2 years ago. Geoff was correct in his initial post.

So what exactly are you saying here that just because it happens fans should accept this and stop trying to make the sport and the players cleaner?

If that's the stance why not just jack in drug testing altogether you cant catch them all so why bother?

I don't think DaveO was making out that the sport was 100% clean and his view that the sport should be on a moral crusade to present respectable role models is bang on, call it optimism but not idiocy.

[FROM A TO B]

Personally, I think this whole topic has been blown out of all proportion.
Early on there is a post stating I saw him out on the lash, followed up later with an admittance that perhaps he wasn't bladdered after all.
Gleeson was one of our better players against Cas and as everyone else, he is entitled to some free time to relax in whatever "legal" way he see's fit.
I too was spotted in the pub the other week, does it mean I was on the lash?

[cpwigan]

RL clubs have no choice, players are sacked automatically when they are found to have been tested positive for drugs. At all other times they have a choice and in that respect Dave O you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Every club ignores what is happening as long as it never becomes public knowledge so moral crusades are for gullible fans. The reality is clubs turn a blind eye in all sports towards players as long as they seem to be doing it on the pitch. Morality and sport is an oxymoron other than in the romantic notions of the paying spectators.

Gareth Hock has benefitted as a man / as a person from his ban. He has received help and is doing well at the present time. As Rich points out for a long time his antics were ignored as long as he did it on the pitch. Just as they were for Andy Greg, Joey Johns and umpteen others. Look at Gleeson a repeat offender but always a club willing to take him. Look at when Wigan knew a player was indulging. He was moved on discreetly despite most people knowiong in Wigan what was happening.

The sport / fans don't care what happens to players. Players are packages of meat. Green Vigo? Andy Greg? what a legend Gary Connolly was? blah blah blah They are adults is the line brought out for such people / sad endings.

At every club in every sport there are alcoholics and drug users. Players know it / clubs know it BUT everybody pretends otherwise. Governing bodies attack those who dare say so and fans ignore it lest is spoils the romance of their chosen sport apart from the odd vindictive oddity.

Gareth Hock was a separate entity and a former employee of Wigan RLFC nearly 2 years ago. Geoff was correct in his initial post.

So what exactly are you saying here that just because it happens fans should accept this and stop trying to make the sport and the players cleaner?

If that's the stance why not just jack in drug testing altogether you cant catch them all so why bother?

I don't think DaveO was making out that the sport was 100% clean and his view that the sport should be on a moral crusade to present respectable role models is bang on, call it optimism but not idiocy.

No. Simply, fans make judgements without either realising or acknowledging that numerous other players / players they often support or hold up as doing the exact opposite of another player that they are criticising are doing the same and worse.

Fans turn a blind eye. ALL FANS as long as what happens on the field is wonderful. Does pretending to be virtuous and moral about such things not make us worse than the players we condemn. What % of posters here / fans have taken drugs, abuse their body regularly through alcohol / are a heart attack waiting to happen and cost / will cost the country a small fortune in medical care? We even have posters here castigating Hock (who lets be honest has a valid excuse in that he was at the back of the line when brains were being given out) whilst readily confessing that they were a drug adict.

IMO Warrington probably cheat the salary cap. However, whilst they do so without getting caught and win some trophies do you think their fans give a damn. If the .... hits the fan then no doubt they will become all moral and righteous but were where they when the cheating was happening without proof.

Umpteen Wigan / RL / Sportsmen/women have taken drugs / drank excessively. Joe public doesn't really care. They pretend to. If it affects competiveness they care a great deal. Half of the Gleeson affair will never be publicised but what has is such a minor part and it does not take Einstein to figure out some of the rest which is why certain posters are posting rather silly views but hey when did that stop anybody. It is almost the raison detre of the internet.

Sporting bodies / professional clubs / fans don't really care about their players. They pretend to / they pay lip service but pieces of meat is what players are. Some fans will say whoa I do, I do. Rubbish. Once that player has played his last game / sweated blood to entertain you, his usefulness ends unless he becomes a coach / club employee. Upon death we hold minutes silences etc but who is that really for.

What are you hoping for? Miracles? Sport at its best is escapism. However, it ultimately reflects society - a society we are all part of but where is your moral crusade day by day? Role models? How many people think they are a wonderful role model? Yet you somehow expect Sport / sporting people who are often less intelligent / from more disadvantaged backgrounds to be better than the rest of Joe Public? Is the fact they entertain us not sufficient? realistic?

[cpwigan]

Just to add. As a fan I made the thread ANNOYED / ANGRY at Gleeson for costing Wigan RLFC a potential Wembley appearance. Of course plenty made mistakes beforehand but if you make the final mistake then you should get criticised.

I just found it odd that many fans never criticised Gleeson but had his surname been something else they would have launched a full attack.

Yet we expects these players to be role models to whom? Us / society? Are we / is society that good?

You even see how fans try to turn threads towards others that they want to criticise / snipe at. Moral / righteous?

[MrDave]

Just to add. As a fan I made the thread ANNOYED / ANGRY at Gleeson for costing Wigan RLFC a potential Wembley appearance. Of course plenty made mistakes beforehand but if you make the final mistake then you should get criticised.

I just found it odd that many fans never criticised Gleeson but had his surname been something else they would have launched a full attack.

It is harsh to say that Gleeson cost Wigan the game against Leeds, there where plenty of other players who made mistakes in that game which Wigan could have done without.

It is even more harsh to blame any of Gleeson's mistakes on the field on off-field events, a player who follows the club rules to the letter can still make mistakes on the pitch.

I actually think that Gleeson's surname would bring him more criticism considering he was caught in a betting scandal and there has been more than a few rumours about him and his brother's off field activities.

[Wigan_forever1985]

No. Simply, fans make judgements without either realising or acknowledging that numerous other players / players they often support or hold up as doing the exact opposite of another player that they are criticising are doing the same and worse.

Everyone has favourite players and that is the nature of the beast but normally fans will give a player slack if they feel that their benifits outweigh their failings.

Fans turn a blind eye. ALL FANS as long as what happens on the field is wonderful. Does pretending to be virtuous and moral about such things not make us worse than the players we condemn. What % of posters here / fans have taken drugs, abuse their body regularly through alcohol / are a heart attack waiting to happen and cost / will cost the country a small fortune in medical care? We even have posters here castigating Hock (who lets be honest has a valid excuse in that he was at the back of the line when brains were being given out) whilst readily confessing that they were a drug adict.

For starters you cannot compare a sportsman to an everyday man as its not a fair comparison. Sportsmen and Women are in a privillaged position and as such should be open to more scrutiny when it comes to being a role model that is the nature of the beast. They get paid a lot of money (in most cases) for what they do and should take that responsibility seriously. I agree that booze and drugs are a problem for everyday people but those people are open to reaction from friends and family too.

IMO Warrington probably cheat the salary cap. However, whilst they do so without getting caught and win some trophies do you think their fans give a damn. If the .... hits the fan then no doubt they will become all moral and righteous but were where they when the cheating was happening without proof.

I find this to be a a pointless comment. If i was a Wire fan i dont have the time to go down and look through their accounts and learn every law regarding the salary cap and then acertain whether they are cheating are not. The club say they aren't so how can you know any different. Just because you have a theory doesn't mean you can just treat that as fact, without the proof its just a rumour and as such does not deserve reaction.

Umpteen Wigan / RL / Sportsmen/women have taken drugs / drank excessively. Joe public doesn't really care. They pretend to. If it affects competiveness they care a great deal. Half of the Gleeson affair will never be publicised but what has is such a minor part and it does not take Einstein to figure out some of the rest which is why certain posters are posting rather silly views but hey when did that stop anybody. It is almost the raison detre of the internet.

Again your acting as if all fans have an in depth and thorough knowledge of the clubs business, we only know what we are told and/or what we see. I think to say fans dont care about a player's well being is a bit harsh, you have to remember that their lives (unless your a close friend or family) is basically not one that we can have an input on, therefore it would be pointless for fans to start losing sleep of what x,y,z are doing but to say people dont care i dont think is true. Yes we care what they are like on the pitch because that is their job its what they are paid to do.

Sporting bodies / professional clubs / fans don't really care about their players. They pretend to / they pay lip service but pieces of meat is what players are. Some fans will say whoa I do, I do. Rubbish. Once that player has played his last game / sweated blood to entertain you, his usefulness ends unless he becomes a coach / club employee. Upon death we hold minutes silences etc but who is that really for.

Again see statement above

What are you hoping for? Miracles? Sport at its best is escapism. However, it ultimately reflects society - a society we are all part of but where is your moral crusade day by day? Role models? How many people think they are a wonderful role model? Yet you somehow expect Sport / sporting people who are often less intelligent / from more disadvantaged backgrounds to be better than the rest of Joe Public? Is the fact they entertain us not sufficient? realistic

Well to be honest i do what i can as most people on here do, im a manager and had a talk with a girl the other day after she came in hungover for the 3rd time in a row, not about her at work but about how she was at home and whether there were issues and maybe better ways of dealing with it. I care about my friends lives if i see one taking drugs i will tell them they need to stop. I have a God Daughter who i try and be a Role Model for. Yes im not perfect but i haven't got the money or the coverage of a Professional sportsman/woman, They may not be gifted brainswise but thats why they pay advisors and have manangers.

Put it this way id rather be blindly optimistic that we could achieve a level where drugs didn't exsist in sport than be a bitter husk of a human that came up with nothing but problems.

[highland convert]

The complacency with which drugs are accepted in society is the problem. Community service for those using where they have to help in rehab clinics and centres or work with and for the families of addicts might open their eyes a bit, I firmly believe drug using actors and entertainers should be banned from the beeb. Why should my license fee pay for their habit and help them promote the use of drugs?
Jim

[Shaun1967]

Personally, I think this whole topic has been blown out of all proportion.
Early on there is a post stating I saw him out on the lash, followed up later with an admittance that perhaps he wasn't bladdered after all.
Gleeson was one of our better players against Cas and as everyone else, he is entitled to some free time to relax in whatever "legal" way he see's fit.
I too was spotted in the pub the other week, does it mean I was on the lash?

I wouldn't say it has been blown out of all proportion, maybe one or two posts have gone off at a tangent, however the title of the thread suggests to me that Gleeson's professionalism is being called into question.

I have seen Gleeson out before and never thought it necessary to post it on here, however in this case it was in response to the questions being asked about his professionalism. These questions are not just being posed by posters on here - they are being asked publicly by his coach who has openely stated that he is not happy with the standards Gleeson is setting off the field.
It may be construed as reasonable by some that after our biggest game of the season to date, he may be recuperating.
Going out on the beer hinders this process.

I have never questioned Gleeson's ability, however I do question whether or not he is performing to his full potential given his lifestyle.
It would seem that similar questions have been asked by his current and previous coaches. There are not many good British centres out there at the moment. Given the wage we pay Gleeson, he should be an automatic choice at international level amongst the current crop of players.
Interestingly, no-one on here questioned his exclusion from the England squad, suggesting his form is poor.

When I spotted him in the pub I was out on the lash.
However with me, as with you, no-one on here cares as they are not expecting me to go out and perform to the highest level I can in the toughest sport going.