Riots

[josie andrews]

Sorry for the rant, it just does my head in that a few mindless idiots lose the plot & then nothing gets done to them, only the excuses!!

It's all "But they're bored", "They're from a deprived area", "They're from a broken home" "They've nothing to do"!!

There are plenty people like that but they don't destroy everything in sight.

Sorry, I've gone off on one again

[KOOCH]

You can pretend like the politicians are doing Kooch that it was mindless and had no reasoning but everything and anything has a reason behind it and to ignore why something happens just makes history repeat itself etc. You are faced with 3 choices 1) Enforce and equip the police force to strictly impose law and order 24/7 in this country 2) Understand why people behave like this and try to change that attitude/mentality 3) Ignore it and write it off as mindless and watch it happen again and again, days, weeks, months, years after.

I hate that this has happened but as a nation we bring this on ourselves. We get the country we deserve. A couple of weeks from now the victims will be forgotten and the unrest will be forgotten AND nothing will have been learned or improved.

No pretence in my statement cpw.It's fantastic to find fault be it the politicians parents whatever.It does not excuse in any way the mindless acts we are currently seeing on our tv screens.I hope that it never does happen to you.But just lets say that you where on the receiving end of the looting etc.Would you then still be looking for the reasoning behind all of this? I have done things in my life time that I am thoroughly ashamed of but I never looked to blame anyone for what I did.I don't hide my head in the sand. Yes I do blame the politicians for the decreasing of our police force.I don't however blame them for the looting.You would not like my inner most thoughts when seeing these mindless acts so I shall keep them to myself lest I offend the liberal minded folk.What I will say is that unless you have experienced the mindless thuggery at first hand then you really do not have any idea what your talking about.Unfortunately I have experienced the utter devastation of people who have had their lives ruined.And in my past life I was often the damned cause of it.Something I am not proud of.But with age comes maturity and common sense in that I saw the wrong I did people and turned my life around.But that did nothing to ease the hurt of my victims.So you see cpw I do know a little of what I'm talking about.

[bonbon]

This has got to be organised rioting & looting.

I'd just shoot the bastards for what they have done to all those innocent people.

It's about time the police were given the authority to bloody hit them without all the recrimination from the lily livered do-gooders which are ruling & ruining this country.
And get rid of this so called human rights bill that gives more protection to the perpetrators than the victims

Message to all the arsehole rioters .......... . u wanna be big men and fight to the death, well get your sorry little arses on the next plane to Afghanistan and stand alongside real men who contribute something worthwhile! They're called soldiers and they are fighting a war unlike you bunch of pathetic wastes of space !!!!!

You get my vote Josie, all started when they banned the cane and slopper in school, kids now adays have never learnt respect.

[KOOCH]

This has got to be organised rioting & looting.

I'd just shoot the bastards for what they have done to all those innocent people.

It's about time the police were given the authority to bloody hit them without all the recrimination from the lily livered do-gooders which are ruling & ruining this country.
And get rid of this so called human rights bill that gives more protection to the perpetrators than the victims

Message to all the arsehole rioters .......... . u wanna be big men and fight to the death, well get your sorry little arses on the next plane to Afghanistan and stand alongside real men who contribute something worthwhile! They're called soldiers and they are fighting a war unlike you bunch of pathetic wastes of space !!!!!

Bravo Josie. :eusa2: :eusa2: :eusa2:

[Kiwiseddon]

For me it's the issue of your set of morals and responsibilities. We are all arguing a reasoned argument stating that these rioters are criminals and should be quite rightly prosecuted for their crimes.
I feel that the issue is that the rioters themselves are approaching this from a totally different angle. If they felt the sense of morality that we do then they wouldn't do what they are doing. They'd be sitting in our camp protesting about the riots.
The simple truth is that those rioting and looting really don't give two hoots about what's right and wrong and this is simply a way of expressing themselves. I abhor what they're doing and never wish to really understand it as it may lead me to a tiny bit of sympathy, which they don't deserve.

What I do know for sure is that I'm about to embark on another night shift and I'm genuinely concerned for my colleagues who will be fighting with these morons. There are those who will get seriously hurt and put themselves in the line of fire out of a sense of duty and responsibility. The responsibility that keeps the fabric of our society intact. Because let's be honest, we don't do it for the ever reducing money do we?
The moment we give up, we're as bad as them so we will keep putting ourselves there and doing what our morals tell us to do regardless of what may happen to us. This is the Police's problem because we're the Police and we have a responsibility to do something about these morons. The Police will win this, regardless of how ferocious the challenge may be. And even if the tactics used will cause debate amongst the general public, we will eventually beat this. If anyone is unhappy with how the Police are dealing with it, then I suggest they stop what they're doing now, pick up a riot shield and travel to London, safe in the knowledge that they are not going to get any extra pay for this but stand in the line of fire because it's someone's duty to do so.
Please everyone, stand by the Police. Right now we need public support and the encouragement to keep on putting ourselves there. If the public are against us, it makes it so hard and the battle may has well be lost.

[cpwigan]

You can pretend like the politicians are doing Kooch that it was mindless and had no reasoning but everything and anything has a reason behind it and to ignore why something happens just makes history repeat itself etc. You are faced with 3 choices 1) Enforce and equip the police force to strictly impose law and order 24/7 in this country 2) Understand why people behave like this and try to change that attitude/mentality 3) Ignore it and write it off as mindless and watch it happen again and again, days, weeks, months, years after.

I hate that this has happened but as a nation we bring this on ourselves. We get the country we deserve. A couple of weeks from now the victims will be forgotten and the unrest will be forgotten AND nothing will have been learned or improved.

No pretence in my statement cpw.It's fantastic to find fault be it the politicians parents whatever.It does not excuse in any way the mindless acts we are currently seeing on our tv screens.I hope that it never does happen to you.But just lets say that you where on the receiving end of the looting etc.Would you then still be looking for the reasoning behind all of this? I have done things in my life time that I am thoroughly ashamed of but I never looked to blame anyone for what I did.I don't hide my head in the sand. Yes I do blame the politicians for the decreasing of our police force.I don't however blame them for the looting.You would not like my inner most thoughts when seeing these mindless acts so I shall keep them to myself lest I offend the liberal minded folk.What I will say is that unless you have experienced the mindless thuggery at first hand then you really do not have any idea what your talking about.Unfortunately I have experienced the utter devastation of people who have had their lives ruined.And in my past life I was often the damned cause of it.Something I am not proud of.But with age comes maturity and common sense in that I saw the wrong I did people and turned my life around.But that did nothing to ease the hurt of my victims.So you see cpw I do know a little of what I'm talking about.

Kooch we have all been victims of such antics at varying scales (I have but that does not mke me special) but you are missing the point totally. Even the politicians / newsreaders contradict themselves. It is NOT MINDLESS. The only people doing mindless acts are the clinically insane. Hence, my 3 options. If it is premeditated and purely criminal then it is not mindless and Josie and option 1 is perfectly correct. I happen to think it is a big part of what is needed but on its own not enough.

People need to read what Kiwi has posted. I can find you umpteen people who in one breadth will say 1) Recession, debt crisis; the police need to live in the real world and have their pensions cut and redundancies are needed blah blah blah but today are saying where are the police? the police are useless. People cannot have it both ways. Why have we all (and I include myself) sat back and nodded like nodding donkeys allowing politicians to cut police budgets, force redundancies and said nothing.

It does not stop/end with the police. Anybody who is involved with young people can tell you that things have been deteriorating year on year and why? Politicians play games and we have a blame culture. If your a teacher and a child is badly behaved or bone idle, he/she can be, the teacher is crap/at fault, the school is useless/failing. Everybody knows behaviour is an issue, read some OFSTED reports, our children nationwide are angelic. Why do official reports say that? Well if the Government says YES many children are gits who can they blame. They never blame parents because they all vote, blame the teacher/blame the school. If a school has a badly behaved child and they expel said child, guess what? The Government fines the school, the government takes your money away from your children for school trying to deal with bad behaviour. So according to the very same politicians saying this is mindless criminality in one breadth, in another they say all children are angels.

The police are treated no better and face a similar set of issues. The police live in the real world and yet the public, the politicians that should be helping them regularly shaft them. Why? Problems are too difficult to face and it is far yoo easy to pretend otherwise and turn the other cheek ignoring it.

Why as a society do we not deal with poor parenting? problem children? Why do we pretend it does not exist and make excuses.

I actually believe in a hard line approach to conduct FOR ALL combined with a caring, unselfish society where collective responsibility is at the forfront of what we do. Why? because if we just write such things off and do not tackle the real issues they just keep happening and happening which is why Kooch you are one of many, the majority not a minority BUT to write it off as mindless is wrong and for such things to be forgotten is suicidal.

The initial spark may have a genuine grievance BTW but we should be asking A) why are young people behaving like this in our country and B) what are we going to do about it. The last thing we need is politicians spouting meaningless inaccurate rhetoric. Alas, the truth might hurt them.

[StarAndy]

dont know how true it is but just been told that robin park complex has been attacked and JD sports is the first victim of the criminal chavs

[cpwigan]

Good article here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14462102

Head teachers' leader, Brian Lightman, says there need to be some "hard questions" and "uncomfortable truths" for parents and families, after youngsters were caught up in an unprecedented night of violence and looting.Mr Lightman blames a toxic mixture of dysfunctional parenting and a consumer and celebrity culture which tells youngsters they should have whatever they want. He warns that too often schools are faced with pupils who have never had any boundaries in their home lives - where there has never been a sense of right and wrong.

But there have been campaigners drawing links between the riots and the huge gap between rich and poor in the capital. James Mills, head of the Save the EMA campaign, has warned about the scrapping of the education maintenance allowance which was designed to keep disadvantaged young people in education.

Camila Batmanghelidjh, founder of Kids Company which works with disturbed and excluded youngsters, says these are the actions of a "completely ignored underclass" who have developed a "perverse morality".

James Treadwell, a criminologist from the University of Leicester, says it's much less about riot and protest and much more about opportunistic theft, usually by young men. "It's about the acquisition of goods, it's quite planned, it's about getting hold of a new laptop," he says, describing this as a kind of violent materialism. He describes this as "lawless masculinity", akin to football hooliganism, fuelled by excitement and consumerism, grabbing the items that give young men status - mobile phones, computers, trainers, jewellery.

[cherrywarrior]

Just been to cinema and didnt see nowt...

[cpwigan]

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/op ... 46889.html

Another good article here

We should perhaps ask them what they were thinking before reaching for phrases like "mindless violence". We might actually learn something.

I should get paid for my views lol AND politicians should be shot. N.B how politicians of EVERY party all stick together at times like this almost as a self defence mechanism more concerned for their own survival and existence rather than the issue of the day.