Riots

[doc]

What got me was her spin that only 12% of the police were on the streets at any one time.

Don't know what the shift system is, but assuming 4 shifts in rotation that gives a max of 25%. When you take off plain clothes, desk/admin, giving evidence in court, sick, holiday etc. 12% isn't unreasonable.

Having lived in the NE for 10 years before moving back to Wigan, I say put Ray Mallen in charge of the Met. He did a fantastic job in both Hartlepool and Middlesbrough where he pioneered zero tolerance / positive policing in this country. He has continued to clean up Boro after being elected Mayor.

[Wes]

Not getting involved in the money and political aspects of policing but I think zero tolerance is exactly what we need, the country has gone soft and a burglar can get caught in the act but sue the copper for putting the cuffs on too tight!

I know thats a slight exagerations but no win no fee should not be allowed against any force, be that police nurses firemen or military and crime and criminals should be hit hard, in the riots there should have been tear gas and baton rounds put to use yes they are dangerous but so is setting fire to shops and cars! a couple of baton rounds and the trouble would have soon dissapated!

Rant over

[Kiwiseddon]

I think all of your points are valid and thanks for all the kind words people wrote about my long hours recently. The truth is I feel ashamed bitching about doing 11 days straight while Tony H is in Afghanistan missing his family at the risk of being seriously hurt. There is no comparison and us Coppers really don't have it that bad.

That said, I do think that we are our own worst enemies sometimes. Gaz Partin mentioned some of his experiences with the Police and while I would never try to be some power tripping little Hitler, I know some who are and I find it embarrassing with the way they conduct themselves. I'm all for the use of baton rounds etc if the need arises, as long as the use is right and proper. My worry is that power corrupts and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely. We do have to be reigned in sometimes and you can never account for the idiots in the Police giving the rest of us a bad name.

However I wrap it up though cuts will mean poorer performance. Unless the Courts are going to start dishing out meaner punishments our work will always be uphill. I don't want to come across all Daily Mail (God help me if I do) but the Courts need to start doing something about the state of crime in this country. The $64000 question is what? And I'm afraid that I don't have the answer.

[Panchitta Marra]

This has got to be organised rioting & looting.

I'd just shoot the bastards for what they have done to all those innocent people.

It's about time the police were given the authority to bloody hit them without all the recrimination from the lily livered do-gooders which are ruling & ruining this country.
And get rid of this so called human rights bill that gives more protection to the perpetrators than the victims

Message to all the arsehole rioters .......... . u wanna be big men and fight to the death, well get your sorry little arses on the next plane to Afghanistan and stand alongside real men who contribute something worthwhile! They're called soldiers and they are fighting a war unlike you bunch of pathetic wastes of space !!!!!

In countries like Singapore this would never happen as the purpotraters are flogged in public.
The floggings are so strong they would never think of trying it again.
It would save on rooms in prisons and public tax payers money too.

[platt-warrior]

In countries like Singapore this would never happen as the purpotraters are flogged in public.
The floggings are so strong they would never think of trying it again.
It would save on rooms in prisons and public tax payers money too.

human rights.

[bonbon]

In countries like Singapore this would never happen as the purpotraters are flogged in public.
The floggings are so strong they would never think of trying it again.
It would save on rooms in prisons and public tax payers money too.

human rights.

Bah, they lost their rights for looting and rioting.

[Kiwiseddon]

In countries like Singapore this would never happen as the purpotraters are flogged in public.
The floggings are so strong they would never think of trying it again.
It would save on rooms in prisons and public tax payers money too.

human rights.

Bah, they lost their rights for looting and rioting.

I'm lucky enough to have been to Singapore and the difference between their streets on a Saturday night and ours is that over there people behave. It's as simple as that. You are perfectly safe on the underground or in any bar and I think it's a shining example of what can be achieved where people simply don't tolerate bad behaviour. I also found that the people were friendly and very welcoming. It's just that they have rules and you have to abide by them. They're pretty much the same rules as we've got, it's just that the penalties for breaking them are so severe that people don't break them.

When it comes to Human Rights........What about my right to walk down a street in safety?

[Wes]

human rights.

Bah, they lost their rights for looting and rioting.

I'm lucky enough to have been to Singapore and the difference between their streets on a Saturday night and ours is that over there people behave. It's as simple as that. You are perfectly safe on the underground or in any bar and I think it's a shining example of what can be achieved where people simply don't tolerate bad behaviour. I also found that the people were friendly and very welcoming. It's just that they have rules and you have to abide by them. They're pretty much the same rules as we've got, it's just that the penalties for breaking them are so severe that people don't break them.

When it comes to Human Rights........What about my right to walk down a street in safety?

Where theres a blame there is a claim if you dont walk down the street a thief cant rob you so surely he could take you to court for loss of earnings and win!

Our country is in a sad shape IMO and I am afraid as long as we have do gooders and green peace nuts it will always be out of shape! Human Rights work in the extreme but it is very similar to health and safety . . . gone too far!

[Panchitta Marra]

In countries like Singapore this would never happen as the purpotraters are flogged in public.
The floggings are so strong they would never think of trying it again.
It would save on rooms in prisons and public tax payers money too.

human rights.

I agree PW, the Human Right to torch shops and businesses, attack OAP's and murder people because they have the right to do so.
An eye for an eye is how I see it in life, rightly or wrongly.

[i'm spartacus]

The do still have them. The laws have never been repealed. As for Human rights act, this only comes in to play when the actual law used to prosecute someone is at odds with European law. British people haven't as such a human rights act to fall back on.

Unfortunately or not, and depending on your viewpoint, we do Jobo.

The Human Rights Act 1998 incorporates the provisions of the European convention on Human Rights into English law. So in effect anyone can rely on the ECHR providing your issue is against a public body, or a private body carrying out a public function. Not only should it provide protection against those bodies breaching your rights, it should also provide protection if they fail to uphold your rights.

Here lies the problem with the HR Act.
The police are bound to uphold the law and pursue the wrongdoers without infringing human rights any more than is necessary to maintain the peace.
The courts are bound under the Act to have consideration for the human rights of the people they sentence.
The shop keepers who's lives were ruined when their shops were robbed/burned/destroyed should also have their rights to get on with their lives in peace upheld.

The net result is you have a police force that can't take the necessary action without fear, courts that can't give out harsh enough sentences, and shopkeepers who's only course of action is to dig deep and pay the solicitors to take action to uphold their rights. The criminals who have done the robbing and burning are protected by the act and insulated from the costs by legal aid. To make matters even worse, national law is superseded by European law. So whether we like it or not, there is nowt we can do about it.