Gareth Thomas

[Panchitta Marra]

Bugger. Another thread ruined by posters who can't be arsed quoting/editing properly and turning it into just a mass of blah blah that I can't be arsed ploughing through!

Thanks guys!

Bugger me KW, I thought that "quote" was for linking directly onto someones thread to make direct comment about that thread.
Or am I wrong.

[Kittwazzer]

Bugger. Another thread ruined by posters who can't be arsed quoting/editing properly and turning it into just a mass of blah blah that I can't be arsed ploughing through!

Thanks guys!

Bugger me KW, I thought that "quote" was for linking directly onto someones thread to make direct comment about that thread.
Or am I wrong.

It is. But someone will write a 3 page essay. Someone else will write a page about one specific line in the previous essay without removing the 'packaging' or highlighting the specific line he is commenting on.

Before you know it, you are trawling through War and Peace trying to identify the point being made.

A good example is DaveO's typical responses. He will break down a post and comment on each bit, which is excellent. The problems then arise when subsequent posters try to do the same. Totally lose track of who is saying what.

And now I think I've just written an essay!

[wall_of_voodoo]

I suppose (without really knowing) that the bigger picture is more than simply putting 13 players on the field.

I assume it is about profitability (ie promoting the club/team) for business perspectives (sponsorship's etc), scouting new and raw talent, promoting the club (re Thomas's sexuality and the fact the club is being bigger/more positive in it's approach to the subject matter in what is regarding a pretty taboo subject still in sport), not only along the M62 corridor but to the World itself. Probably there are other concerns, but they are held by Wigan and IL - and who am I and most others to criticize when it is his money/expertise/leadership that has primarily turned the club around from under Mo and DW and continue to do so.

Besides, if the player comes as "free", if a player was to leave because he couldn't hack the challenge of a 37 year old then I hope they have better luck at a new club (where I have no doubt they will also have to perform to expect a first team spot)

[DaveO]

This signing is more a commercial one and the benefits to the club could be huge in the long run. Thomas is the biggest name in Welsh RU

Surely Thomas WAS the biggest name in Welsh RU. The big names in Welsh RU now are the stars of the Welsh international side about to embark on the world cup. They have new hero's. Thomas is in the elder statesman class.

He is only supposed to be signing for a season so I don't think there is a long run (and that also makes it sound like he is being signed to play on a one year deal).

and with him at the club, and the plans that the club have to go along with this which will come out in due course, Wales will become a breeding ground for Wigan and if they even get just a handful of top quality young Welsh RU/RL players coming through on the back of it then his signing will be well worth it.

Why do we want to look at young Welsh talent anyway? We produce more young players than we can keep hold of as it is locally. What is the fascination with young Welsh RU players over young Wigan RL players?

Also, given as I said Thomas is in the elder statesman class just how much influence is he going to have on young players who may never have even seen him play RU? Particularly if he never gets a 1st team game at Wigan so is never actually seen on Sky in Wales playing for Wigan?

[Shaun1967]

Why do we want to look at young Welsh talent anyway? We produce more young players than we can keep hold of as it is locally. What is the fascination with young Welsh RU players over young Wigan RL players?

What a ridiculous statement. Are you suggesting we should only look for players in the Wigan area?

[Kittwazzer]

Why do we want to look at young Welsh talent anyway? We produce more young players than we can keep hold of as it is locally. What is the fascination with young Welsh RU players over young Wigan RL players?

What a ridiculous statement. Are you suggesting we should only look for players in the Wigan area?

I don't think he was saying that at all. Simply implying that we already have a wealth of talent that we will struggle to accommodate. Why scour the regions for talent we may never use?

[Shaun1967]

I don't think he was saying that at all. Simply implying that we already have a wealth of talent that we will struggle to accommodate. Why scour the regions for talent we may never use?

Because we may or may not find a gem.
If we increase the competition amongst the younger players the weakest will be released. Simples.
One of the first things IL said he was going to do when he took over was to increase the scouting set up. There weren't many objections to this.

[Dobby]

[quote="DaveO]Why do we want to look at young Welsh talent anyway? We produce more young players than we can keep hold of as it is locally. What is the fascination with young Welsh RU players over young Wigan RL players?[/quote]

Without wanting to get into a typical 8 page argument this statement is wrong in so many ways.

The players that we dont keep hold of are, 99.9% of the time not good enough, its as simple as that. There are very view that have genuinely top careers and the only one that readily springs to mind was Sean Long whose release was nothing to do with talent. There is absolutely no fascination with young Welsh RU talent over Wigan RL talent, if the players from Wigan are good enough they will make it at Wigan anyway. If the Wigan born players are not and Welsh players do make it then surely it would prove that recruiting players from Wales is a success. It is not like we are talking about hoards of Welsh players either, just like we dont sign hoards of Cumbrian or Yorkshire players. Also where do we stop, do we then not sign the likes of Mossop and O'Carroll because they were not born locally?

Some of the best ever RL players have been Welsh, including many that have played for Wigan. Wigan have always had a rich history of scouting the best young Welsh rugby talent but with RU turning pro this dryed up. However there is no need for this to be the case as many young Welsh kids now play RU and RL and there isnt the same kind of money in Welsh RU as in English RU. It is only right that Wigan scour the UK for the best Rugby talent, they always traditionally did but this has been neglected somewhat since RU went pro. The Evans brothers at Warrington have shown that this is still possible and are great talents.

[DaveO]

The players that we dont keep hold of are, 99.9% of the time not good enough, its as simple as that. There are very view that have genuinely top careers and the only one that readily springs to mind was Sean Long whose release was nothing to do with talent. There is absolutely no fascination with young Welsh RU talent over Wigan RL talent, if the players from Wigan are good enough they will make it at Wigan anyway. If the Wigan born players are not and Welsh players do make it then surely it would prove that recruiting players from Wales is a success. It is not like we are talking about hoards of Welsh players either, just like we dont sign hoards of Cumbrian or Yorkshire players. Also where do we stop, do we then not sign the likes of Mossop and O'Carroll because they were not born locally?

You miss the point about not keeping hold of players so perhaps I wasn't clear. We let players go and yet still manage to put together GF and CC winning sides without going any where near RU players. Yes Mossop and his ilk are obviously not local but that just goes to show scouting RL players is successful.

What we didn't need to do though to attract Mossop was sign a 38 year old Cumbrian! That's the problem with Thomas. If we really want to look to signing RU players then signing a soon to be 38 year old player who ought never to get a 1st team game is a ridiculous price to pay if we think that is what is required to lure them here.

Some of the best ever RL players have been Welsh, including many that have played for Wigan. Wigan have always had a rich history of scouting the best young Welsh rugby talent but with RU turning pro this dryed up. However there is no need for this to be the case as many young Welsh kids now play RU and RL and there isnt the same kind of money in Welsh RU as in English RU. It is only right that Wigan scour the UK for the best Rugby talent, they always traditionally did but this has been neglected somewhat since RU went pro. The Evans brothers at Warrington have shown that this is still possible and are great talents.

The best Welsh Wigan RL players all came from the era when RU was still properly amateur in Wales and they were established players were lured here by the chance to make a proper living from the sport. That happened from Boston right up to Quinnell. We never routinely scouted young RU talent nor did we sign ageing former RU stars to attract it.

There is absolutely no comparison between what went on then and what is being suggested now. As to the Evans brothers the exception certainly does not prove the rule.

I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if they are as Welsh as Harris and as Irish as Pat Richards!

[Wes]

The players that we dont keep hold of are, 99.9% of the time not good enough, its as simple as that. There are very view that have genuinely top careers and the only one that readily springs to mind was Sean Long whose release was nothing to do with talent. There is absolutely no fascination with young Welsh RU talent over Wigan RL talent, if the players from Wigan are good enough they will make it at Wigan anyway. If the Wigan born players are not and Welsh players do make it then surely it would prove that recruiting players from Wales is a success. It is not like we are talking about hoards of Welsh players either, just like we dont sign hoards of Cumbrian or Yorkshire players. Also where do we stop, do we then not sign the likes of Mossop and O'Carroll because they were not born locally?

You miss the point about not keeping hold of players so perhaps I wasn't clear. We let players go and yet still manage to put together GF and CC winning sides without going any where near RU players. Yes Mossop and his ilk are obviously not local but that just goes to show scouting RL players is successful.

What we didn't need to do though to attract Mossop was sign a 38 year old Cumbrian! That's the problem with Thomas. If we really want to look to signing RU players then signing a soon to be 38 year old player who ought never to get a 1st team game is a ridiculous price to pay if we think that is what is required to lure them here.

Some of the best ever RL players have been Welsh, including many that have played for Wigan. Wigan have always had a rich history of scouting the best young Welsh rugby talent but with RU turning pro this dryed up. However there is no need for this to be the case as many young Welsh kids now play RU and RL and there isnt the same kind of money in Welsh RU as in English RU. It is only right that Wigan scour the UK for the best Rugby talent, they always traditionally did but this has been neglected somewhat since RU went pro. The Evans brothers at Warrington have shown that this is still possible and are great talents.

The best Welsh Wigan RL players all came from the era when RU was still properly amateur in Wales and they were established players were lured here by the chance to make a proper living from the sport. That happened from Boston right up to Quinnell. We never routinely scouted young RU talent nor did we sign ageing former RU stars to attract it.

There is absolutely no comparison between what went on then and what is being suggested now. As to the Evans brothers the exception certainly does not prove the rule.

I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if they are as Welsh as Harris and as Irish as Pat Richards!

Its very rare Dave that I can think or say I can agree with what you come out with BUT that is a very good post!