merged Ben Thaler Thread

[Jules]

As an ex referee myself, not pro level but was moving in that direction when I stopped, I know one thing. No ref will ever take an instruction to do anything other than play fair to both teams.
Yes in other spots, refs have taken pay offs, football (not in this country) is one example. But these are individuals and so rare it barely makes it worth commenting on.

Any ref I know would post his whistle back to RFL in an instant if asked to do anything othe than provide fair play to all.
To state that there is an RFL backed plot passing through referees to hamper Wigan is a conspiracy theory up with those backing George Bush to the 9/11 attacks.

[cpwigan]

As an ex referee myself, not pro level but was moving in that direction when I stopped, I know one thing. No ref will ever take an instruction to do anything other than play fair to both teams.
Yes in other spots, refs have taken pay offs, football (not in this country) is one example. But these are individuals and so rare it barely makes it worth commenting on.

Any ref I know would post his whistle back to RFL in an instant if asked to do anything othe than provide fair play to all.
To state that there is an RFL backed plot passing through referees to hamper Wigan is a conspiracy theory up with those backing George Bush to the 9/11 attacks.

I do not believe that there is any conspiracy etc etc but if you were being honest you would readily admit that officials are human beings and as such are subjective. Whatsmore, who would want to be an official. It takes a certain type of person. Mainly, people with unique personality traits.

There are documented cases of referees cheating particularly in Australia whereby Darcy Lawler was the most famous example.

[cow yeds]

We use to call Klein a clown but i see he gets good raps back in Aus.

[cpwigan]

We use to call Klein a clown but i see he gets good raps back in Aus.

He is well coached in Aus and has improved. At the onset, he was criticised by some experts in Aus. One thing is for sure he was superior to most if not all emerging through the Cummings system. The newer generation are very poor.

[Nezza Faz]

It wasn't that he made mistake after mistake (apart from ignoring offside and square at marker), it was that he made mistakes at such key points that cost Wigan.

The last time he did this was against stains when he failed to send off LMS.

He is not up to the job or he is doing it deliberately. Either way, CP is right, the fans have to let him know just what we think of him - and that idiot roby too. It worked with Ganson, we gave him a hard time and he sorted his act out.

We made 5 critical "mis"-handling errors in the 1st half which were crucial, so much so that you virtually have given the game away. Compounded because the players involved you'd expect more of - Tomkins on 2 occasions, Charnley, Gelling (twice also) and then O'Loughlin in front of our posts.

That's 6 sets Leeds had (36 ptb's) that we didnt have - that's a huge handicap. So we were the villains of our own downfall. They then say you make your own luck.

Incidentally, Tim Roby is a Wigan lad and a fan, for most of his 20 odd years.

Heads up and concentrate on the Play-off's now - finishing top has to be the target, at least have a more settled line-up, especially in the halves.

Whether Roby is a Wigan fan or not he is a very poor referee. Perhaps he is not to blame as he is a product of the Cummings era. Incidentally, an era where noses have to get very brown and favour earned to progress. Attaining Grade 1 / FT status on merit is not what it is about.

Officials are subjective beings, they can be pressurised into making favourable decisions. It is up to Wigan fans to give them hell if they are anything less than fair in their decision making. The DW should become a hell hole for Thaler.

Presumably Roby, like all SL officials have trod a long path of experience to reach that level. From Toddlers & Kids matches on a Sunday morning, through schoolboys, colleges, universities, from the bottom amateur leagues through to Premier Conference level, and that firstly by officiating on the line and then, only later entering the middle to take sole charge. Monitored by all the old refs who get fondly remembered on here, like D. Campbell & Tony Brown, who continually assess their progress. They then need to keep up their standard with the most rigorous fitness testing, by third party professionals.
They also desire progress so would try their best on each appointment to get the pick of the matches, so neutrality goes without saying.
With all the abuse they get (seemingly fostered by cp here) then who the hell would want to put themselves through that, for not a lot of reward. Remember, without them, we wouldn't have a game and there's not exactly a queue of aspiring refs to pick up the whistle with all the negative stuff piled on them.

[cpwigan]

We made 5 critical "mis"-handling errors in the 1st half which were crucial, so much so that you virtually have given the game away. Compounded because the players involved you'd expect more of - Tomkins on 2 occasions, Charnley, Gelling (twice also) and then O'Loughlin in front of our posts.

That's 6 sets Leeds had (36 ptb's) that we didnt have - that's a huge handicap. So we were the villains of our own downfall. They then say you make your own luck.

Incidentally, Tim Roby is a Wigan lad and a fan, for most of his 20 odd years.

Heads up and concentrate on the Play-off's now - finishing top has to be the target, at least have a more settled line-up, especially in the halves.

Whether Roby is a Wigan fan or not he is a very poor referee. Perhaps he is not to blame as he is a product of the Cummings era. Incidentally, an era where noses have to get very brown and favour earned to progress. Attaining Grade 1 / FT status on merit is not what it is about.

Officials are subjective beings, they can be pressurised into making favourable decisions. It is up to Wigan fans to give them hell if they are anything less than fair in their decision making. The DW should become a hell hole for Thaler.

Presumably Roby, like all SL officials have trod a long path of experience to reach that level. From Toddlers & Kids matches on a Sunday morning, through schoolboys, colleges, universities, from the bottom amateur leagues through to Premier Conference level, and that firstly by officiating on the line and then, only later entering the middle to take sole charge. Monitored by all the old refs who get fondly remembered on here, like D. Campbell & Tony Brown, who continually assess their progress. They then need to keep up their standard with the most rigorous fitness testing, by third party professionals.
They also desire progress so would try their best on each appointment to get the pick of the matches, so neutrality goes without saying.
With all the abuse they get (seemingly fostered by cp here) then who the hell would want to put themselves through that, for not a lot of reward. Remember, without them, we wouldn't have a game and there's not exactly a queue of aspiring refs to pick up the whistle with all the negative stuff piled on them.

Hence we have such wonderful officiating

[weststand-rich]

Sounds like something a journalist has said rather than the ref to me. No such thing as an accidental knock on - if there is, then I guess they all are - noone is trying to knock on!

If there is truely an organised conspiracy in the RFL - how do they keep it quiet? They aren't very good are organising anything that they don't have to keep secret, so how do they manage to keep this major piece of organisation totally safe and secure and deploy it so effectively? When do they start to indoctrinate the officials - do any of them ever turn them down when asked to fix a match?

Also, if there are "instructions" being given to referees, don't you think that they would make it into the refs autobiographies in a few years - what would make a book sell better than a few match fixing revelations! I'll wait for some exciting reads from RFL officials and referees.


IMO conspiracy theories are a cop out. Play well and take the randomness of refereeing out of the equation as much as you can. We failed to do that yesterday

Some sense here at last Mike. At a club level it wouldn't surprise me if some the results were 'swayed' by some errant players looking for a quick quid a la Gleeson, but with the RFL............

Our refs may be useless. Useless bordering on vaingloriously inept at times, but for anyone to seriously suggest there is a systematic corruption in the game is bordering on lunacy. Nigel Wood doesn't sit in a big chair at Red Hall stroking a cat whilst he issues conspiratorial diktats to his minions. That would take organisation and strategy. Both are qualities sadly lacking in the RFL.

In a complicated and dynamic situation, the most simple explanation is usually the right one. In this case -- the ref cocked up and made an mistake that was compounded by not using the video ref. Leeds got the rub on this occasion.

[ian.birchall]

This post did not warrant a separate thread

I won't blame anyone for starting or commenting on a thread after tonight's debacle. We all deserve our say and our therapy in saying it. Because let's be honest, therapy is all it really is. None of our comments matter in the long run and I for one just want to get all of tonight's agony off my chest!

Dont just sit there grumbling, arrest Thaler

[ian.birchall]

We did have 2 referees. One watching the video. all he had to say into Thalers ear was 'knock on'.
Are the video refs instructed not to interfere in the game unless asked to do so?

Yes, the video judge is not allowed to speak to the ref whilst the game is in progress unless he is asked a question.

[MarkD]

Wigan were the architects of their own downfall but Thaler definitely provided the tools.