SACK SW NOW

[CougarDeb]

Im so gutted as well, but I think we need to put it to bed now, we all have out theories about what went wrong, I just think we aren't savvy enough when it comes to crunch matches. Lets see what transpires in the off season with our new signings. Hopefully the team can learn from all that has happened.

[wiganwarriordave]

I have to laugh at this thread, or i'll cry... Seriously... Have you listened to yourselves?

Here are the facts as i see them.

We finished top of the league, made the CC semi-final and came less than a few minutes away from the GF at Old Trafford.... We stuffed Saints 3 out of 4 times, and the time we didn't we still gave them a damn good run for their money with 12 men. Why all the doldrums? We're hardly Widnes or Castleford are we!?!??

The first half of the season, we were formidable, ruthless, and very impressive. Add to this some poor RFL disciplinary decisions, the farcical Exiles match in which we lost Tommy, and had to turn-around a lot of players in a short period. And we dropped form. Is this Wane's fault? No. Not in my opinion. He did the upmost with what he had.

Wane has appeased what Wigan fans have been wanting for many seasons in investing in youth. We've offered a few debuts, and IMO those individuals have performed well. The "rookies" of yesteryear (Charnley, Goulding etc) are now developing into solid experienced players who before long IMO will also become powerhouses of the next England RL generation, and for certain the foundations of the Wigan team for years to come.

As for the starting of this thread and the Leeds semi game. SW had a game plan, both in attack and defense. Swapping Pat to FB and dropping someone else in at wing puts players out of the positions they have trained for all week. Jack for Sam was a straight swap with less ramifications. And as stated earlier in this thread, Jack has impressed, and shown his ability under the high ball and had earner this opportunity. As for his performance, i thought he played well. The balls he dropped were very tough calls. Unless you have ever played FB in an RL game, or attempted to catch a high ball (or in particular, a high ball while being charged by 13 other blokes), you can't comment... I have (and yes, i dropped em too!). For those that are blaming Jack specifically. After watching the Wigan/Leeds game, did you go on to watch the Warrington/Saints semi and the Melbourne/Canterbury NRL final and see Brett Hodgson and Billy Slater fumble similar kicks??

The reason we lost the semi was a combination in my eyes...
a) Not having the aggression of Micky Mac
b) Lockers out of position covering for a)
c) Lack of Sam's attacking prowess, chiming into the line, kicking, creating overlaps, stepping and 2nd phases.
d) We only turned up for 40 minutes. The first half we looked clueless, Finchy was throwing passes to ground, we rarely had any dummy runners, we didn't build pressure and force repeat sets. We we're getting caught in possession and just looked out of sorts. Anyone remember Hock putting the fifth tackle kick in!?!?
e) Sinfield was pure world class and battered us all game. Lets take off our Cherry & White tinted glasses and applaud an opposition opponent when he plays a blinder.

The fact that we got within 2 points after going in at halftime against the current champions 11 points down is testament to Wigan. But those blaming SW, or JM are well out of order IMO.

Do you honestly think Wigan 2012 would have been good enough to beat Wire at OT? I will tell you what I think NO. We are some way behind Wire now. The only saving grace is that we will not be beaten easily at OT.

You can write a paragraph saying why we lost and how we only lost by a point. We LOST. Half your reason are pointless because guess what we lost in the CC Semi too. On both occasions we were not good enough when it mattered. Do you honestly think winning the hub cap is an achievement? Did Leeds try when we were flat track bullying them by 50 points Did Wire try to win every game or did they rest and blood youngsters? Did Saints even have a recognised coach for half the season?

BTW, if you think Sinfield is world class then you obviously watch a different sport than I do and see him pounded every time he comes up against genuine world class opposition like Australia.

We have a coach who was given 2 years priceless education and had the foundations laid. What did he do? Ignored it, criticised it because he and Gary Schofield knew better. Not much difference between Waney and Schoey, would you be happy with Schoey as Wigan coach?

Jack Murphy should have never been near that game. A major mistake by Waney. The biggest asking players to play a way they are not comfortable with under pressure. We had everything go for us in that game bar the last 30 seconds, before that ever call, every slice of luck went our way. Even when we improved in the 2nd half Leeds got the ball over the try line only to lose it, got in a try scoring position only to pass it to a Wigan player. Leeds could have won that game by 12 points or more.

The expectation at Wigan is success and winning. If you cannot hack as a coach or a full back somebody else comes in.

My mistake, you're right. 2nd place is first loser and the world is about to end as our season has been so disastrous.

I had neglected to remember we had a god given right to win everything without turning up as we are Wigan.

I'll call Kevo and let him know his 40/20's were shit right now. That the way he frustrated and out played our team all game was complete fluke and he should just call it a day this instant.

Action plan going forward - Slate the youngsters, terminate the youth team, sack the coach, buy in Aussies/Kiwi's and win everything. And if the new players and coach so much as drop a ball or god forbid lose a match, we'll slate and sack them too until we get a perfect 100% season?

:eusa17: :eusa17: :eusa17: :eusa17:

[DaveO]

I have to laugh at this thread, or i'll cry... Seriously... Have you listened to yourselves?

Here are the facts as i see them.

We finished top of the league, made the CC semi-final and came less than a few minutes away from the GF at Old Trafford.... We stuffed Saints 3 out of 4 times, and the time we didn't we still gave them a damn good run for their money with 12 men. Why all the doldrums? We're hardly Widnes or Castleford are we!?!??

Because unless you are mad we missed out on the two major trophies getting beaten in two-semi finals and Wane's decisions had a big hand in both losses. Our record against our main rivals in the 2nd half of the season is poor. We lost to Leeds in two semi-finals and lost to Wire twice in the league. The fact we beat Saints 3 out of 4 times means diddly squat the end of the day. Beating teams below us by plenty just hides the failings.

The first half of the season, we were formidable, ruthless, and very impressive. Add to this some poor RFL disciplinary decisions, the farcical Exiles match in which we lost Tommy, and had to turn-around a lot of players in a short period. And we dropped form. Is this Wane's fault? No. Not in my opinion. He did the upmost with what he had.

It is very much Wane's fault. He made very poor use of what he had as people kept pointing out at the time. The way he dealt with the loss of one player was to shift people out of position and IMO this is a big reasons why the teams form did drop. Playing Lockers at 6 never works against the big sides. Wane was fooled by victories against poor opposition. I knew as soon as when we bought the cup-tied Smith and Lockers played at 6 in the run up to the semi-final that is how he would pick the team in the cup semi-final. He did and it failed as it always does against the top sides.

He had alternatives that would have been far less disruptive to the team - as he did in Friday's semi-final against Leeds.

Wane has appeased what Wigan fans have been wanting for many seasons in investing in youth. We've offered a few debuts, and IMO those individuals have performed well. The "rookies" of yesteryear (Charnley, Goulding etc) are now developing into solid experienced players who before long IMO will also become powerhouses of the next England RL generation, and for certain the foundations of the Wigan team for years to come.

He even managed to get this wrong. He made wholesale changes v Widnes and we lost to give players a rest who didn't need a rest. A loss which contributed to prolonging the race for top spot such that we were having to bust a gut v HKR two games before the play offs instead of resting players who were definitely ready for a test given his dumb full contact training regime. Compounded by going full tilt in the last game when the title was won. Micky Mac looked like he needed a rest for several weeks but Wane put a full strength side out and he ended up with a ban.

He also didn't give Murphy any other opportunities so he ended up in a semi-final with one SL appearance under his belt. Wane failed to give this lad any more opportunities which would have better prepared him for a semi-final.

He looked a good prospect in the one SL game he did play but instead of moving Sam to 6 when Tommy was out which would have left Lockers at 13 and giving Murphy a run in the side we had a very Noble-like musical chairs situation position-wise an no game time for Murphy. I said all this at the time so its not hindsight either.

As for the starting of this thread and the Leeds semi game. SW had a game plan, both in attack and defense. Swapping Pat to FB and dropping someone else in at wing puts players out of the positions they have trained for all week. Jack for Sam was a straight swap with less ramifications.

Less ramifications? You saw the ramifications on the night. An inexperienced player could not take the pressure. The idea moving Pat to FB when he is familiar with playing there and brining in a player on the wing would be as disruptive as you suggest is just nonsense.

In any case it is a total coaching no-no to bring in a rookie for a semi final. There is never any justification for doing it.

And as stated earlier in this thread, Jack has impressed, and shown his ability under the high ball and had earner this opportunity. As for his performance, i thought he played well. The balls he dropped were very tough calls. Unless you have ever played FB in an RL game, or attempted to catch a high ball (or in particular, a high ball while being charged by 13 other blokes), you can't comment... I have (and yes, i dropped em too!).

Now you are being ridiculous. There was no player anywhere near him for the last one. He wasn't being pressured at all and as a full back it is his job to catch them. Pat would have done so one handed. Murphy, quite understandably, caved in under pressure. These kicks were not impossible to deal with at all.

For those that are blaming Jack specifically. After watching the Wigan/Leeds game, did you go on to watch the Warrington/Saints semi and the Melbourne/Canterbury NRL final and see Brett Hodgson and Billy Slater fumble similar kicks??

No one is blaming Murphy. Wane yes for a dumb selection when he had alternatives is the one being blamed and rightly so.

e) Sinfield was pure world class and battered us all game. Lets take off our Cherry & White tinted glasses and applaud an opposition opponent when he plays a blinder.

I think you are the one who needs to take the cherry n white specks off given this post of yours. However by mentioning Sinfield you have highlighted exactly why Wane was at fault to pick Murphy. When you have someone who is such a threat with the boot the last thing you do is select a player who effectively has a big sign round his neck saying "kick at me, I am a rookie".

The fact is we were winning 12-11 so had he taken that kick we would be in the final. Had Pat been at full back not only would Sinfield have not been kicking at him all night Pat would have dealt with it no problem. Whatever else we did or did not do in that game can't alter the fact the winning score came directly as a result of a ball dropped my an inexperienced player who should not have been on the pitch.

The fact that we got within 2 points after going in at halftime against the current champions 11 points down is testament to Wigan. But those blaming SW, or JM are well out of order IMO.

Those blaming Wane are spot on. Wane had two years to see how it was done under Madge and instead of carrying on the same way with the odd minor tweak he chucked the baby out with the bathwater. He thought he knew better than Madge and the results ought to be telling him (and you) he didn't.

He won't be sacked this year but he won't get a new deal after next unless he learns his lessons. The trouble is he has made so many changes to how Madge did it he will have to basically eat humble pie to do that and I don't think he will. He will in my opinion carry on the same way because as he said recently he will keep doing it his way even if it is the wrong way!

[cpwigan]

I have to laugh at this thread, or i'll cry... Seriously... Have you listened to yourselves?

Here are the facts as i see them.

We finished top of the league, made the CC semi-final and came less than a few minutes away from the GF at Old Trafford.... We stuffed Saints 3 out of 4 times, and the time we didn't we still gave them a damn good run for their money with 12 men. Why all the doldrums? We're hardly Widnes or Castleford are we!?!??

The first half of the season, we were formidable, ruthless, and very impressive. Add to this some poor RFL disciplinary decisions, the farcical Exiles match in which we lost Tommy, and had to turn-around a lot of players in a short period. And we dropped form. Is this Wane's fault? No. Not in my opinion. He did the upmost with what he had.

Wane has appeased what Wigan fans have been wanting for many seasons in investing in youth. We've offered a few debuts, and IMO those individuals have performed well. The "rookies" of yesteryear (Charnley, Goulding etc) are now developing into solid experienced players who before long IMO will also become powerhouses of the next England RL generation, and for certain the foundations of the Wigan team for years to come.

As for the starting of this thread and the Leeds semi game. SW had a game plan, both in attack and defense. Swapping Pat to FB and dropping someone else in at wing puts players out of the positions they have trained for all week. Jack for Sam was a straight swap with less ramifications. And as stated earlier in this thread, Jack has impressed, and shown his ability under the high ball and had earner this opportunity. As for his performance, i thought he played well. The balls he dropped were very tough calls. Unless you have ever played FB in an RL game, or attempted to catch a high ball (or in particular, a high ball while being charged by 13 other blokes), you can't comment... I have (and yes, i dropped em too!). For those that are blaming Jack specifically. After watching the Wigan/Leeds game, did you go on to watch the Warrington/Saints semi and the Melbourne/Canterbury NRL final and see Brett Hodgson and Billy Slater fumble similar kicks??

The reason we lost the semi was a combination in my eyes...
a) Not having the aggression of Micky Mac
b) Lockers out of position covering for a)
c) Lack of Sam's attacking prowess, chiming into the line, kicking, creating overlaps, stepping and 2nd phases.
d) We only turned up for 40 minutes. The first half we looked clueless, Finchy was throwing passes to ground, we rarely had any dummy runners, we didn't build pressure and force repeat sets. We we're getting caught in possession and just looked out of sorts. Anyone remember Hock putting the fifth tackle kick in!?!?
e) Sinfield was pure world class and battered us all game. Lets take off our Cherry & White tinted glasses and applaud an opposition opponent when he plays a blinder.

The fact that we got within 2 points after going in at halftime against the current champions 11 points down is testament to Wigan. But those blaming SW, or JM are well out of order IMO.

Do you honestly think Wigan 2012 would have been good enough to beat Wire at OT? I will tell you what I think NO. We are some way behind Wire now. The only saving grace is that we will not be beaten easily at OT.

You can write a paragraph saying why we lost and how we only lost by a point. We LOST. Half your reason are pointless because guess what we lost in the CC Semi too. On both occasions we were not good enough when it mattered. Do you honestly think winning the hub cap is an achievement? Did Leeds try when we were flat track bullying them by 50 points Did Wire try to win every game or did they rest and blood youngsters? Did Saints even have a recognised coach for half the season?

BTW, if you think Sinfield is world class then you obviously watch a different sport than I do and see him pounded every time he comes up against genuine world class opposition like Australia.

We have a coach who was given 2 years priceless education and had the foundations laid. What did he do? Ignored it, criticised it because he and Gary Schofield knew better. Not much difference between Waney and Schoey, would you be happy with Schoey as Wigan coach?

Jack Murphy should have never been near that game. A major mistake by Waney. The biggest asking players to play a way they are not comfortable with under pressure. We had everything go for us in that game bar the last 30 seconds, before that ever call, every slice of luck went our way. Even when we improved in the 2nd half Leeds got the ball over the try line only to lose it, got in a try scoring position only to pass it to a Wigan player. Leeds could have won that game by 12 points or more.

The expectation at Wigan is success and winning. If you cannot hack as a coach or a full back somebody else comes in.

My mistake, you're right. 2nd place is first loser and the world is about to end as our season has been so disastrous.

I had neglected to remember we had a god given right to win everything without turning up as we are Wigan.

I'll call Kevo and let him know his 40/20's were shit right now. That the way he frustrated and out played our team all game was complete fluke and he should just call it a day this instant.

Action plan going forward - Slate the youngsters, terminate the youth team, sack the coach, buy in Aussies/Kiwi's and win everything. And if the new players and coach so much as drop a ball or god forbid lose a match, we'll slate and sack them too until we get a perfect 100% season?

:eusa17: :eusa17: :eusa17: :eusa17:

zzzzzzzzzzz

Nobody has a God given right BUT that is the standard at Wigan. It always has been, it always should be. Wane knows it too. Seems you do not. Go watching Leigh.

I believe you played RL? If so the quality of the kicks is very much down to the other players and their efforts leading up to the kick. Simething Sinfield / McDermott acknowledged. If you think Sinfield is world class then you are easily pleased

[Matthew]

That's RL over until the start of next season for me.

Still absolutely gutted with Friday night. Still believe Silverwood should have given a penalty for the blatant holding down on Goulding, but that snapshot shows exactly what is killing the game. The "refereeing" and "disciplinary" are now at their lowest point that I can ever remember. But at the end of the day, we've lost another semi-final.

Won't watch the final (and will try and avoid the result) or the Autumn "internationals" and will be avoiding sites except to check on news for next year.

At least I won't have to listen to the retards on sky for the next few months.

[Kol]

Consistency is one thing but it means absolutely nothing if you "Bottle It" when it really matters; we did exactly that, twice.

[medlocke]

Not really bothered, got over it in an hour, it wasn't as if it were the final and we also don't have the god given right to be in the final, we saw some great matches throughout the season, we finished top with a massive for and against difference showing that we are the best team of the season, no need dwelling on it, me blood pressure too high as it is, all i want now is for Leeds to be shown how to play RL in the final, dirty cheating unsportsmanlike doylems

[TrueBlueWarrior]

I am sure you have already said that once before Kol, oh no sorry it was 'chokers' last time!!

[Wes]

Why are all your posts negative?

[Rayzer1948]

SW should take the blame for the semi defeat. Firstly how come the team were not UP for it for 40 mins after having 2 weeks off. They looked as if they had not seen or spoken to each other in this 2 weeks ?
As for picking Murphy is beyond belief.
Also a note here that the 4 outgoing players probably had their worst games ever together and after the last 2 months showing I'm now glad Finch is going.
Let's see what SW does next season to get us back on track.