Ins and outs of 2013

[butt monkey]

I am at a bit of a loss to see where all the money has gone.

Many seem to be saying that players contracts have been upgraded. I don't argue that point nor do I ignore the fact that on or two players HAVE had their contracts improved. However, many seem to blissfully of the opinion that those players leaving must have in some way, had contracts totally opposite to those anyone else ever signed ie got worse as they stayed on.

Fielden by his own admission signed for Wigan for a huge sum of money. Now if CP and others claim he was paid peanuts in the last few years of his contract as opposed to his original signing on wage - then fair enough

Ditto Leualui - perhaps he (and his agent) were stupid enough to negotiate contracts that got progressively worse the longer he stayed at the club. Perhaps he loved the club so much he played for free? (i'm just not sure)

When Carmont extended his contract, maybe he made the same mistake as Leualui and was using the same agent?

And no wonder Lima couldn't wait to bugger off back to Australia. Despite offering Finch almost 3 times what he would be on before resigning for Melbourne, Lima was playing for Wigan for peanuts (again) - so obviously he wouldn't stay!

Simple common sense tells you that it would be almost impossible or simply ridiculous to the point that business sense was thrown out the window by IL for the club to have spent up to the cap with what we have currently signed

[weststand-rich]

Most of the players contracts are escalators - such that their salaries are backloaded on their contract. Just because XYZ players have left it doesn't mean that their salaries become free and into the pot. Most of the cap has already been committed. So it's not going on 2-3 players, but spread across increasing existing players mopney.

I think the point being made is all those who have left will have taken up a fair chunk of the salary cap. So if Lima was on say £100K the club could hand out five £20K pay rises and still have Tommy, George's and Finch's salary to play with.

Also given who is left how many of them would warrant the salary of a big name star player? The players we have recruited don't and I'd already expect the likes of Richard's, Lockers and Hansen to be very well paid so they wouldn't need an increment of £20K or more. So who is all the money going on?

We have not had so much quality and experience leave in one go for a long time and I am at a bit of a loss to see where all the money has gone.

Well, a substantial disproportionate chunk will of gone on STs improved goldern handcuffs contract. I don't the precise numbers, but it has been described to me as 'astronomical' for the modern game. Another big chunk will have gone on Smith and then improved contracts for Farrell, Charnley et al.

Trent Barrett was a great example of a daft contract structure. One of the reasons IL was so keen and eager to let him when he took over go was that the third year of his contract represented over 60% of the total pay deal of that contract.

Don't try and second guess the salary cap with back of the envelope calculations. It defies sense the way the contracts are structured sometimes and it means that seemingly vast amounts of free money just disappear. At present it means our squad is inferior on paper, but still effectively paying out the same wages as the past 3 years

BTW I believe we have ~100K free under the cap at present. So I guess if anybody comes up we can add to the squad, but not a star........ unless they take a deferred contract deal.

[weststand-rich]

[quote="butt monkey"][quote="DaveO"]

Fielden by his own admission signed for Wigan for a huge sum of money. Now if CP and others claim he was paid peanuts in the last few years of his contract as opposed to his original signing on wage - then fair enough

/quote]

BM,

Fielden also by his own admission was one of the players who renegotiated his contract with the club back in 2006 when Wigan did so en masse to get their wage bill under the cap (and were done for the spirit of the cap issue). He extended his terms, effectively for less per year but gareenteed for longer.

In 2010 when his contract we renewed his terms were much more sensible and given he's been injured for 2 complete seasons, his trade of security vs yearly increment was a wise one.

[DaveO]

Fielden by his own admission signed for Wigan for a huge sum of money. Now if CP and others claim he was paid peanuts in the last few years of his contract as opposed to his original signing on wage - then fair enough

/quote]

BM,

Fielden also by his own admission was one of the players who renegotiated his contract with the club back in 2006 when Wigan did so en masse to get their wage bill under the cap (and were done for the spirit of the cap issue). He extended his terms, effectively for less per year but gareenteed for longer.

That is not what was done in 2006. Existing players contracts were renegotiated so they were back loaded in the players favour so we were under the cap in 2006.

Fielden was not an existing player but he signed for us in 2006 along with Dobson. So Fielden was signed on the terms he signed on that season whatever they were. He didn't have to renegotiate anything. It was players like Hansen (he was certainly one who did this) who renegotiated their contracts so we could sign Fielden and Dobson.

In 2010 when his contract we renewed his terms were much more sensible and given he's been injured for 2 complete seasons, his trade of security vs yearly increment was a wise one.

I am sure his 2010 contract will have been based on a mutual agreement between him, his agent and the club. Whatever those terms were I doubt they resulted in a poor salary. He isn't stupid and would not have stayed here for two years on a poor wage.

I agree with BM's last point. If the squad we have now has used up all the cap (or even if there is still £100K left in the pot), then IL has been ripped off.

[cpwigan]

[quote="cpwigan

Transfer activity has ended other than Taylor. There is not enough room in the cap.

How do you know that there isn't enough under the cap?

Five probably highly paid players have left. Do you honestly think all that cash has gone on 2 or 3 players for next season?

Get a grip!![/quote]

Wigan will keep approximately 100K as a contingency so we will not spend the full cap. People I respect tell me that is what is left and I have no reason to doubt them.

Contracts are very fluid, they are not as fixed as ours in real life. Sams for example may go up considerably (his is on a par with what Trent received) and none of us know how the RFL contribution works or how long it lasts.

We have decided to invest in youth players. Their salaries are generally low for the first deal and then tend to jump significantly for the second. We sign far more young players than most clubs too.

At the end of the day if somepeople I respect tell me we have little left I will go with that. Other people can choose to believe what they want. However, remember, those people I trust are 99% of the time correct ...

Believe what you want, free world

[weststand-rich]

That is not what was done in 2006. Existing players contracts were renegotiated so they were back loaded in the players favour so we were under the cap in 2006.

Fielden was not an existing player but he signed for us in 2006 along with Dobson. So Fielden was signed on the terms he signed on that season whatever they were. He didn't have to renegotiate anything. It was players like Hansen (he was certainly one who did this) who renegotiated their contracts so we could sign Fielden and Dobson.
I am sure his 2010 contract will have been based on a mutual agreement between him, his agent and the club. Whatever those terms were I doubt they resulted in a poor salary. He isn't stupid and would not have stayed here for two years on a poor wage.

I agree with BM's last point. If the squad we have now has used up all the cap (or even if there is still £100K left in the pot), then IL has been ripped off.

Sorry Dave, but you're wrong here. He came to the club on one deal and then he renegotiated after he came. In fact Maurice Lindsey took him with him to RedHall when we had the farce of the cap spirit, to argue Wigans case as an example of a player who was selfless and had done so to help Wigans cause.

[Panchitta Marra]

Most of the players contracts are escalators - such that their salaries are backloaded on their contract. Just because XYZ players have left it doesn't mean that their salaries become free and into the pot. Most of the cap has already been committed. So it's not going on 2-3 players, but spread across increasing existing players mopney.

I think the point being made is all those who have left will have taken up a fair chunk of the salary cap. So if Lima was on say £100K the club could hand out five £20K pay rises and still have Tommy, George's and Finch's salary to play with.

Also given who is left how many of them would warrant the salary of a big name star player? The players we have recruited don't and I'd already expect the likes of Richard's, Lockers and Hansen to be very well paid so they wouldn't need an increment of £20K or more. So who is all the money going on?
We have not had so much quality and experience leave in one go for a long time and I am at a bit of a loss to see where all the money has gone.

Is there the possibility that players like Josh, Faz, Moose, Mick Mac etc are on increased salaries for the coming season, if so this would increase the cap slightly.

[Exiled Wiganer]

Is this discussion on the basis that we sign Scott Taylor? If we do, then I'm pretty comfortable with our forward strength. We have a lot of players who will be better next year than they were this - in particular I am really looking forward to seeing Dudson improve from his excellent showings this year. Flower, Mossop, Crosby etc will all be better. Lima was really up and down this year.
I could see one of Hughes, Gelling or Thornley stepping up some do not miss George too much. If Blake gets back to his 2011 form, he'll be a good replacement for Finch. Smith has happily had plenty of games to get used to the way we play, and Powell looks like he could step up very nicely to the play making role, so we could be ok in the halves. I think the biggest loss is the intangible will to win and drive that Tommy brought to the team. We don't have many strong characters, or at least that is how it looks from the outside, and so Tommy will be a big miss.
Against that, though, Wire and Leeds are a year older. None of heir key men is getting better. Saints have a squad full of average players, so will be no more of a threat next year than they were this year.
If SW learns the lessons from this year in terms of peaking at the right time (and of course we will never know where we would have ended up had Sam stayed fit), then we could be set fair.

[butt monkey]

Sorry Dave, but you're wrong here. He came to the club on one deal and then he renegotiated after he came. In fact Maurice Lindsey took him with him to RedHall when we had the farce of the cap spirit, to argue Wigans case as an example of a player who was selfless and had done so to help Wigans cause.

That is quite an unbelievable thing to say!

You claim Wigan signed Fielden, then realised they would be over the salary cap to do so, so renegotiated a "new" contract with him within weeks and then tried to go to Red Hall and appeal this "spirit of the cap" breach (which hadn't been made public at that time).


Why not simply recruit Fielden under a small contract a make that contract the huge one he was on after the initial season at Wigan?? We wouldn't have breached anything then lmao???


DaveO is correct that the likes of Hansen and Lockers were the players to except reduced terms to allow for this signing - all under the premise their new contracts saw rises to make up this shortfall (and reward their loyalty)

[weststand-rich]

You might not believe it but it's true. Fielden was one of a group of players who agreed to defer wages in order to keep Wigan under the cap limit. I can't be more categorical and clear than that. He didn't have to, but chose to.

This was done at the end of the season and the players involved effectively didn't draw a wage September / October (remember the salary cap year runs Nov to Nov).

Believe me or don't believe me. I've made my point.