One tactic Wane fails again

[DaveO]

Steve, the defensive system Wigan are using is one in which they naturally sit back and allow the attack to unfold in front of them so they dont get caught out by lead or back man runners.

This is great if you have a number of things

a)Size of players to be able to handle what would naturally be a static tackle
b) the speed to adjust your feet should you get caught with a switch of play
c) the ability to accelerate into a tackle to cut off any immediate threat.

However we are constantly losing the initial contact, and having to get numbers into the tackle to cope with the aftermath of the initial loss, the 1st half last night was again a perfect example of what has been happening all season, where we hang on in there and the 2nd half we just get physically tired and the amount of missed tackle start racking up.

What everyone is saying seems to be almost with a unified voice, we cannot keep playing the defensive style we are as it is just not suiting the club as a whole as we dont have the physical size to perform the tasks required.

Hull and now Leeds have shown that with a fast up and in defence you can spoil the plays and force wigan into a very basic type of rugby ultimately playing into the oppositions hands.

Wane needs to carry the can here and either change the system to suit the size of players we have or if he continues to play the way we are he needs to recruit some very physical players with some serious size and agility.

I would also add that his own inexperience has been exposed as they way he wants to play should have also reflected the way in which Mark Bitcon should have prepared the players during the off season.

Ive been a critic of mcdermott in the past but he certainly worked us over last night and Leeds played at a massively high tempo with wave after wave of big forwards coming at us and to put it bluntly come the 2nd half we could not cope as we put all the effort in, in the 1st half.

Good post. I commented to my son at halftime that we were already knackered.

It has to be said though quite a bit of the Leeds momentum on attack was gained because Silverwood couldn't spot a forward pass in a million years and equally some of their in the face defense was down to playing off 5m not ten for the first tackle in a set.

The trouble is we could see them doing this and could see Silverwood wasn't going to blow but had no game craft to deal with it. Did we try anything like a chip over the top like hamshire did last week? No and I can't recall Smith or Green doing it once this season never mind in that game.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

This is not an excuse but I agree DaveO, thought Silverwood was awful!!

[markill]

I have hated reading fans criticising Mossop this season even before his Eels move was announced. Wane ball denies forwards the opportunity to be forwards. Look how spread our players are from the POTB, the distance props often are from Mickey Mac.

Mossop in particular, but our forwards generally, are being flogged defensively week in week out and its no wonder we aren't getting good enough field position to wear teams down. I'd love to see how many repeat sets we get in the opponents half. I'd bet in the 2nd half of the season we'd be as low as any other team. I would also guess average starting position of our opponents has been further towards our line than any of our competitors.

This is all because we get the ball wide, go backwards if teams defend it well, which all the strong teams are doing now, and then kick from a bad position.

[phild1]

you can't blame the ref.the lack of skill and leader ship on the park is why our great team is going through these horrors.i can't ever remembering a half back pairing as average as green and smith.the pack are second best at the moment and sam should be in the action and not cleaning up from the back.having said all that leeds should have had more try's the amount of possession and territory they had,JAMIE PEACOK WAS BEST forward on the park he still made the hard yards even with a string of would be tacklers on his back.COME ON WIGAN ROLL YOUR SLEEVES UP AND GET THE JOB DONE!

[stevethegas]

Steve, the defensive system Wigan are using is one in which they naturally sit back and allow the attack to unfold in front of them so they dont get caught out by lead or back man runners.

This is great if you have a number of things

a)Size of players to be able to handle what would naturally be a static tackle
b) the speed to adjust your feet should you get caught with a switch of play
c) the ability to accelerate into a tackle to cut off any immediate threat.

However we are constantly losing the initial contact, and having to get numbers into the tackle to cope with the aftermath of the initial loss, the 1st half last night was again a perfect example of what has been happening all season, where we hang on in there and the 2nd half we just get physically tired and the amount of missed tackle start racking up.

What everyone is saying seems to be almost with a unified voice, we cannot keep playing the defensive style we are as it is just not suiting the club as a whole as we dont have the physical size to perform the tasks required.

Hull and now Leeds have shown that with a fast up and in defence you can spoil the plays and force wigan into a very basic type of rugby ultimately playing into the oppositions hands.

Wane needs to carry the can here and either change the system to suit the size of players we have or if he continues to play the way we are he needs to recruit some very physical players with some serious size and agility.

I would also add that his own inexperience has been exposed as they way he wants to play should have also reflected the way in which Mark Bitcon should have prepared the players during the off season.

Ive been a critic of mcdermott in the past but he certainly worked us over last night and Leeds played at a massively high tempo with wave after wave of big forwards coming at us and to put it bluntly come the 2nd half we could not cope as we put all the effort in, in the 1st half.

We're not at odds on this. I agree with the concept you're describing, but the truth is that when we've lose, and we've done that a lot in the last couple of months, the opposition have been in our faces when we've had the ball and nullified our attacks. The problem is we haven't been able to contain their movement and therefore their field position. Earlier in the season, in those happy days when we had a five point lead at the top of the table, we were all over the opposition and we were the team making 50m a set and containing them.
I believe we need a lot more aggression in defence in the midfield. On our line it's different, but the opposition are getting there too easily, and stopping us getting near their own.

[cpwigan]

I have hated reading fans criticising Mossop this season even before his Eels move was announced. Wane ball denies forwards the opportunity to be forwards. Look how spread our players are from the POTB, the distance props often are from Mickey Mac.

Mossop in particular, but our forwards generally, are being flogged defensively week in week out and its no wonder we aren't getting good enough field position to wear teams down. I'd love to see how many repeat sets we get in the opponents half. I'd bet in the 2nd half of the season we'd be as low as any other team. I would also guess average starting position of our opponents has been further towards our line than any of our competitors.

This is all because we get the ball wide, go backwards if teams defend it well, which all the strong teams are doing now, and then kick from a bad position.

Exactly right Mark. The players burn up so much energy defending in our own half that we have little left in the tank for anything else and conversely the opposition are fresher and comparatively stronger than our team as the game progresses.

[TedMac]

Apart from Mossop, none of our props strike fear into any decent opposition. If Leeds, Huddersfield, Wire play 'bulldozer' rugby, we can't cope - despite Mr Bitcon, our lads can't match them. Luaki is a waste of salary cap, Dudson, Flower and Crosby OK but nothing special. As Mossop is going, where does that leave us for next season?

I know the poor tactics and therefore 2nd half exhaustion are big factors, but we need props with the power, stamina and steel of Mr Peacock if we're going to win a GF. Think back to Skerrett, Platt, Cowie in their prime or even Geoff Lima at times.

The way Leeds played on Thursday was exemplary - controlled aggression, composure, better kicking, more energy, more dynamism. We really did look very average. I expected a Cup backlash but not on this scale.

This could still change but, without Lockers, I can't see who is capable of changing it. SW isn't likely to re-write his tactical manual before next weekend.

It's no good having 'glittering' backs if there's nothing much for them to do.

[cpwigan]

We actually need fast mobile forwards Ted. We can do what Madge did and utilise our backs to get us out of our own half far more. Look at Leeds, they often just ran 1 out, scooted in their own half especially early doors and it was the likes of Hall doing the damage then Burrow adding his trickery. You just have to go foprwards before you go wide.

The best scooters in the Wigan team are 1). Pat 2) Sam (who never scoots anymore) 3 Josh and 4) Daz. The backs should be returning the ball for a full set after any long kick into our own half.

I am convinced Wane does not even understand how to achieve what he wants or what type of players it requires. The fact he never seemed to learn from Madge suggests he is not intelligent enough rugby wise to be a head coach.

Fans clamour for Powell when actually the guy despite putting the effort in is too raw and out of his depth in RL know how to be flung in to 'save' Wigan. Fans are kidding themselves 'bigging' him up re v Leeds etc. Taylor fantastic potential but is an impact prop unsuited to Wane ball. Wane ball is better with the likes of Flower, Crosby and Burke as props.

[medlocke]

who gave Wane Plan B, it's not on like, he's only allowed to have one tactic

[mario]

who gave Wane Plan B, it's not on like, he's only allowed to have one tactic

Andy Farrell must have been in the dressing room again.
Or maybe Wane knows a bit more than all the experts on here think