Sam staying???????
Re: Sam staying???????
It could have been worse CP it could have been Shaun Long
Re: Sam staying???????
Exactly. Trying to wait until new players are signed is counter productive to put it mildly. It makes him seem untrustworthy and manipulative.jobo wrote:The more stuff like this comes out, the more unprofessional, ridiculous and shady our esteemed chairman looks.cpwigan wrote:http://radiosport.co.nz/player/ondemand ... deal-done-
It lacks confidence as well IMO. He seems to feel he has to temper bad news with good news rather than trusting the fans will just let him get on and recruit suitable replacements in due course.
If Tomkins didn't request the move I'd say he's pretty blameless in all this.Tomkins is in a no win position. A good few of the fans are going to hate him now, as he appears to have been economical with the truth, when it all could have been avoided, just by him being allowed to come clean right from the beginning. I for one wouldn't have blamed IFL for letting him go or blamed Sam for going but the way it's been managed is just taking the p!ss out of the fans.
If he did request it after agreeing his special deal that supposedly tied him to us for at least another three years then he deserves flak for that. You can't go the extra mile in pledging your future to a club in the way he did and not expect any flak if you then walk out. He was hardly unaware of the high salaries in RU and the NRL when he signed it so he should just not have signed it in the first place if he wasn't prepared to honour the deal.
I suspect it wasn't his idea anyway so this won't apply.
The real blame lies with IL whatever Tomkins role in the move is.
He's either proved too weak to enforce a deal he sold to the fans as guaranteeing Sam being here for three years or he's deliberately misled the fans by either agreeing to sell as soon as someone came sniffing or he's actually instigated it. I am not sure which is worse of those three but one has got to apply and none of them mean he's blameless.
Re: Sam staying???????
For god sake IL we are not bloody idiots though you treat us as such. And I'm getting right royally p*sse* off with being treated as such. My take on all of this is that he cannot make any announcement about Sam until he captures a big name signing and as such is failing to so. I am also fed up to the back teeth of Wane harping on about one day seeing a team full of wigan players.It ain't going to happen mate not whilst we make mediocre signings that are not going to enhance our youth.We need player that will inspire our young players.We need players that can pass on the experience they have learned themselves.We needed quality players after Hoffman,Lima,Carmont,Finch,Lulu,departed and what have we had that inspire not only the players but also the fans.Hardly names that tells the rest of super league that wigan are going to be a force to be reckoned with. Sadly I have as much chance of winning the lottery than I have of hearing of major names being announced.I genuinely do not blame Sam for this debacle I blame IL or his advisors. Because he really has treated us with contempt.Pettybourne and Hopkins may well be sound players who will more than likely give every ounce to the wigan cause.But in all honesty they are not exactly household names are they.Though I do hope they will be.IL stop treating us as though we are idiots because I can assure you that though we are not millionaires as yourself we are hard earning supporters of the greatest club and continue to put our money over the counter.A little respect please and some damned big signings.
Re: Sam staying???????
Thanks Josse I see i posted it a bit late I see , CP was right on top of it 
The thing that has stood out in this experience of watching the Tomkins poaching by My club is that It's a worry for the ESL.
Why should I care ?
Well I didn't to be frank when this thing started , but after meeting folk in forums from Wigan , and thereby following the progress of the club / the ESL I've changed my tune.
It really serves the game of rugby league no favors to strip the ESL of talent.
The only way I could see this player poaching business being sorted is a radical set of protections agreement between the two sports goeverning bodies.
Here's where it gets a bit complicated an best posted in another forum , but essentially the tide of crap NRL players bludging in the ESL must stop ( a salary cap exempt one NRL ' true tier one marquee ' import type arrangement )
E.G the ESL is allowed to offer a Cameron Smith Silly money to play there short term akin to the Tomkins deal.
The club signing up a star NRL player in turn is allowed to trade for a Tier one marquee ESL player ( again cap exemptions / parity ).
The biggest put off for NRL fans I suspect when it comes to watching the ESL is seeing guys that weren't rated here looking the goods in the ESL.
To some extent you can be forgiven for thinking ' well the ESL must be pretty weak then '
But this is a nonsense. Sure there are some weak teams , but equally there are teams who would thump the also rans in the NRL and would beat anyone in the top of the NRL in more than just one off world club challenges.
Thomas Leuluai is our nearest reference point. rated as rubbish in the first third of the season , finishes 2013 player of the year.
Very few NZWarriors fans take credit for the showing by Tommy , most are smart enough to know that Wigan made him what he is.
It just reinforces that the ESL top clubs have amazing structures and coaching set ups to be able to take NRL cast offs and make them better.
Then of course there is your own home grown stars dominating in the NRL.
That specter won't continue if the NRL blindly goes on a buy up spree of ESL players and damages the ESL's long term survival.
Kevin Locke has not coped well with the Tomkins deal. I really wish he would go to Wigan and be made a better player , he is one talented individual when his head is in the right space , not that i'm suggesting Wigan should take our basket cases.....just in an ideal world it works for both clubs.
The thing that has stood out in this experience of watching the Tomkins poaching by My club is that It's a worry for the ESL.
Why should I care ?
Well I didn't to be frank when this thing started , but after meeting folk in forums from Wigan , and thereby following the progress of the club / the ESL I've changed my tune.
It really serves the game of rugby league no favors to strip the ESL of talent.
The only way I could see this player poaching business being sorted is a radical set of protections agreement between the two sports goeverning bodies.
Here's where it gets a bit complicated an best posted in another forum , but essentially the tide of crap NRL players bludging in the ESL must stop ( a salary cap exempt one NRL ' true tier one marquee ' import type arrangement )
E.G the ESL is allowed to offer a Cameron Smith Silly money to play there short term akin to the Tomkins deal.
The club signing up a star NRL player in turn is allowed to trade for a Tier one marquee ESL player ( again cap exemptions / parity ).
The biggest put off for NRL fans I suspect when it comes to watching the ESL is seeing guys that weren't rated here looking the goods in the ESL.
To some extent you can be forgiven for thinking ' well the ESL must be pretty weak then '
But this is a nonsense. Sure there are some weak teams , but equally there are teams who would thump the also rans in the NRL and would beat anyone in the top of the NRL in more than just one off world club challenges.
Thomas Leuluai is our nearest reference point. rated as rubbish in the first third of the season , finishes 2013 player of the year.
Very few NZWarriors fans take credit for the showing by Tommy , most are smart enough to know that Wigan made him what he is.
It just reinforces that the ESL top clubs have amazing structures and coaching set ups to be able to take NRL cast offs and make them better.
Then of course there is your own home grown stars dominating in the NRL.
That specter won't continue if the NRL blindly goes on a buy up spree of ESL players and damages the ESL's long term survival.
Kevin Locke has not coped well with the Tomkins deal. I really wish he would go to Wigan and be made a better player , he is one talented individual when his head is in the right space , not that i'm suggesting Wigan should take our basket cases.....just in an ideal world it works for both clubs.
-
Kittwazzer
- Posts: 11308
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:31 pm
Re: Sam staying???????
Hell of a post Smarty. Thanks for giving us some NZW perspective on this affair! 
Re: Sam staying???????
Quality post Mt Smart.
I think the angst here is more so the way OUR club has conducted the whole business and it is a recurring theme.
Players have always moved since 1895. The worst thing that ever happened was the international transfer ban that was brought about in the late 70's following a hysterical response to the loss of several then GB stars.
The 70's was an awful decade for British RL because the ban left our game isolated, ignorant to developments elsewhere so our game declined rapidly leaving a huge gulf in overall standards. From 82 onwards we have been chasing our tails.
Throughout the history of RL players bar the 70 transfer ban players travelled, took the best lessons from wherever they went and then returned to their home country to educate their fellow countrymen. Harry Bath took British ideas to make St George the most successful club in Aus in the 60's, the likes of Hanley, Goodway, Lydon, Gregory, Edwards etc. all went to Aus in the 80's albeit in the British Off Season to learn the best ideas and return with them. Look at how many NZers went abroad to Aus / Britain and improved NZ RL.
I think the angst here is more so the way OUR club has conducted the whole business and it is a recurring theme.
Players have always moved since 1895. The worst thing that ever happened was the international transfer ban that was brought about in the late 70's following a hysterical response to the loss of several then GB stars.
The 70's was an awful decade for British RL because the ban left our game isolated, ignorant to developments elsewhere so our game declined rapidly leaving a huge gulf in overall standards. From 82 onwards we have been chasing our tails.
Throughout the history of RL players bar the 70 transfer ban players travelled, took the best lessons from wherever they went and then returned to their home country to educate their fellow countrymen. Harry Bath took British ideas to make St George the most successful club in Aus in the 60's, the likes of Hanley, Goodway, Lydon, Gregory, Edwards etc. all went to Aus in the 80's albeit in the British Off Season to learn the best ideas and return with them. Look at how many NZers went abroad to Aus / Britain and improved NZ RL.
-
Kittwazzer
- Posts: 11308
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:31 pm
-
josie andrews
- Posts: 38436
- Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:17 pm
- Location: Wigan
- Contact:
Re: Sam staying???????
Wasn't that yesterday?Kittwazzer wrote:News on Wish FM at 3pm!
Anyone can support a team when it is winning, that takes no courage.
But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
that takes a lot of courage. #18thMan
But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
that takes a lot of courage. #18thMan
Re: Sam staying???????
Alzheimer'sjosie andrews wrote:Wasn't that yesterday?Kittwazzer wrote:News on Wish FM at 3pm!
-
Kittwazzer
- Posts: 11308
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:31 pm
Re: Sam staying???????
Just spotted Bilko's post on FB. Didn't look at the date. My bad!Fujiman wrote:Alzheimer'sjosie andrews wrote:Wasn't that yesterday?Kittwazzer wrote:News on Wish FM at 3pm!
