PLEASE IL do the decent thing!!!

[shaunedwardsfanclub]

Mick

I agree to some extent but should IL not be using this money from transfers to try and sign the best still over here?

like who?we are trying to unearth gems like Scott Taylor but IL said from day one we won,t go over the cap,do wire and Leeds abide by the cap rules?the only Aussies over here are not good enough for the ARL to old or have a question mark over em,maybe just maybe the cap does,nt work shock horror.at least sam stayed in RL if he,d signed for a prem RU team that would,ve been a disaster for the superleague.

We are nowhere near the cap this season. There are players out there that would improve our team and they are not on massive salaries. Unless IFL has got a few surprises in store then we will have a massive amount of cap available in 2014.

[Wigan_forever1985]

Ok i think a little context has to be put on lenegans achievements at Wigan. I have seen a lot of people citing him as a "stabilizer" of sorts and someone who has somewhat brought success to wigan.

Lenegan took over in 2007/8. Fristly im not 100% sure about this and please feel free to correct me but i dont think that IL has changed our youth set up in a vast way however i know he did invest in the training facilities.

These are the players who came in since he took over;

Andy Coley (Again cheap turned out to be value for money)
George Carmount (was cheap turned out to be a ledge!)
Richie Mathers (Waste of time)
Karl Pryce (Waste of time)
Cameron Phelps (Average)
Tim Smith (Was a punt that didnt pay off)
Mark Riddell (Good player only once madge got hold of him)
Amos Roberts (Good only once madge got hold of him)
Martin Gleeson (World Class Player)
Paul Deacon (was class but on a swan song so cheap)
Brett Finch (Class part of a deal with storm)
Jeff Lima (Class part of a deal with storm)
Ryan Hoffman (Class part of a deal with storm)
Ben Cross (Average)
Ben Flower (cheap has turned out good)
Gil Dudson ( cheap jurys still out)
Rhodri Lloyd (cheap and not really seen him)
Lauaki (pretty much a disaster)
Ant Gelling (was another punt, cheap, raw unproven)
Matty Smith (Good player)
Blake Green (Good Player)
Scott Taylor (Massive Potential)
Andy Powell (Erm......yeah less said the better)
Matty Bowen (brain = world class, body = shot)

Now i know ive been boring so i wont bore you with all the leavers ill just note who i consider the world class leavers since lenegan took over and ok not all could be helped but we dont know if he deserves the credit for the incomers either;

Bryan fletcher, Trent Barrett, Ryan Hoffman, Brett Finch, Jeff Lima, thomas Leuluai, George Carmont, Gaz Hock (what ever you think of him personally he is class) and Sam Tomkins

Whichever way you cut it there are a hell of a lot more class players that have left than have been replaced. Also look at IL's recruitment record - pretty much all cheapy cheaps and yes some have turned out good like Coley and Carmont however there are enough who didnt turn out well to say that you normally get what you pay for.

So fast forward to our current squad. Most of our current squad came through the ranks of our academy which has always churned out talent, something we have definatly been very lucky to have. I see nothing to suggest that IL has increased the number of talented people in our academy or that it is any different to what wigan as a club have produced for long since he came here.

So lets move on to the trophies, yes under his ownership we have won trophies, we have won a challenge cup x2 and a Grand final. However, we only started to win trophies once Michael Maguire reared his brain on the scene, we were help massively by the melbourne storm having to release 3 of the finest quality players and Maguires influence was lets face it the reason the came to us. With those players and that coach we won 2 trophies and im confident would have won more had they continued alas this is sport and things change.

Since then we have won 1 trophy and i have to say while the achievement is there we couldnt of planned our matches better, but we have finished lower in the league than the past 2 seasons.

So couple all those facts together and has IL actually been the "architect" of any of our success?, he did bring in Maguire however i do get the feeling again it was a "cheap" option that happened to strike gold ala carmount. Maguire had far more input to our success than IL did, as i said if it were not for him 3 of the players integral to the teams success would not have been here IMO.

I have no major bone to pick with IL but i feel he is waiting for the league to become a battle of the academies by his support of the low salary cap he shows to me that he wants it to be cheap academy players that decide the league. That puts wigan in prime position without him having to invest any more money.

Had maguire not come and say st helens or leeds been the benificiary of the Storms fould play would IL of dipped into his pocket? doubtful.

The recruitment under IL IMO has been poor, there are very good players chosing clubs like Hull KR, Wakefield, Salford, Widnes - that should tell its own story about the package on offer at Wigan or scouting they do.

I think without Maguires influence IL would be under a lot more pressure than he is now.

Before i start being moaned at for not enjoying the success etc, i do, and i have enjoyed watching wigan win trophies, what i have not enjoyed is watching world class players leave and none coming back in. What i fear is that if the standard of the league picks up again or the salary cap is raised wigan will become a mid table team if IL continues at the helm.

[jobo]

Now if I had said that................

Just asking but said what??

[cpwigan]

The last 2 posts are completely pointless? I said DETAIL not length of reply. I guess that's what you get when you try and join in and contribute to something and provoke thought and intelligent response. Sorry if I have offended and bored everyone. I should have learnt by now what happens when you disagree with one or two people on here.
As its a FANS forum good luck to the boys this Friday and god luck to Sam T thanks for the memories and hope to see you again one day. I really hope IL and Shaun Wane also prove a few of the snipers wrong too.

So detail never means length struck me you 'tried' to be 'clever' and came unstuck. Must Try Harder!

[DaveO]

Ok i think a little context has to be put on lenegans achievements at Wigan. I have seen a lot of people citing him as a "stabilizer" of sorts and someone who has somewhat brought success to wigan.

Lenegan took over in 2007/8. Fristly im not 100% sure about this and please feel free to correct me but i dont think that IL has changed our youth set up in a vast way however i know he did invest in the training facilities.

We have always produced players. Just when do people think Micky Mac, Hock, H, Lockers and Goulding to name just five began their Wigan careers as juniors?

The Orrell training facilities were part of the package he bought off DW. It was DW who bought them and set us up there.

So fast forward to our current squad. Most of our current squad came through the ranks of our academy which has always churned out talent, something we have definatly been very lucky to have. I see nothing to suggest that IL has increased the number of talented people in our academy or that it is any different to what wigan as a club have produced for long since he came here.

Correct.

I have no major bone to pick with IL but i feel he is waiting for the league to become a battle of the academies by his support of the low salary cap he shows to me that he wants it to be cheap academy players that decide the league. That puts wigan in prime position without him having to invest any more money.

I am certain that is his plan and it means as I posted elsewhere the ambition to bring the best to Wigan seems to have gone.

People will argue we can't sign or hold onto the best players so this is a pragmatic approach by IL but as I said it means he has accepted the situation and isn't moving to change it.

His stance against raising the salary cap adds to this feeling.

The recruitment under IL IMO has been poor, there are very good players chosing clubs like Hull KR, Wakefield, Salford, Widnes - that should tell its own story about the package on offer at Wigan or scouting they do.

Now granted Koukash has started from scratch with Salford and he had to but he has addressed the situation there by digging deep. IL now doesn't have to dig deep given all this cash we have got. The club has plenty of money so the proof of where IL wants to take the club will soon become apparent by who we sign and actually buy as opposed to who we get for free or on the cheap.

There is another aspect to recruitment that is missing under IL and that is previously if a better player became available we went and signed him and if that meant a lesser player lost his place, well tough.

We must have a shed load of space under the cap and so there is plenty of scope to add or replace players.

Mind you it seems we say we must have a shed load of space under the cap every year but we sign average to good players rather than really good players who other clubs are signing.

Before i start being moaned at for not enjoying the success etc, i do, and i have enjoyed watching wigan win trophies, what i have not enjoyed is watching world class players leave and none coming back in. What i fear is that if the standard of the league picks up again or the salary cap is raised wigan will become a mid table team if IL continues at the helm.

There are two schools of thought on this. One is Wigan has always been associated with the best players and was never a selling club.

The other is we don't/won't need or can't have the best players and selling the best ones to fund the running of the club is OK.

The mind boggles at how we have got some people thinking the latter is fine, including it seems to me IL.

[kevccool]

Good post I've really enjoyed reading these today. I don't agree with everything but that is life and what these boards are intended for - getting your point(s) across in a factual and constructive way not used as an immature and petty medium for point scoring and getting the last word. Thanks again.

[Kittwazzer]

The last 2 posts are completely pointless? I said DETAIL not length of reply. I guess that's what you get when you try and join in and contribute to something and provoke thought and intelligent response. Sorry if I have offended and bored everyone. I should have learnt by now what happens when you disagree with one or two people on here.
As its a FANS forum good luck to the boys this Friday and god luck to Sam T thanks for the memories and hope to see you again one day. I really hope IL and Shaun Wane also prove a few of the snipers wrong too.

Woah, back up. I read your post and agree with what you said. Just that your opening line about time constraints amused me. And apparently, you can't have offended both of us as we appear to be on different sides of the fence!

[medlocke]

:eusa2: :eusa2: :eusa2: :eusa2:

Which bit are you clapping to Meds?

what do you think i was clapping at

[KOOCH]

Anybody got some aspirin? I've got a bloody headache from reading some of this tit for tat.

[East Stand Faithful]

Anybody got some aspirin? I've got a bloody headache from reading some of this tit for tat.

Hallelujah!!

Come on lads we are all supposed to be on the same side!

None of us like what has happened with Sam and truth be told nobody really knows what has gone on behind the scenes.

But hey we have a semi final against Leeds on Friday. Lets not be arguing amongst ourselves!!