Hocky

[oldhooker]

Of course the RFL are incompetent, and of course Mcnamara is a poor coach, but how anyone can blame them for Hocks latest foul up is unbelievable, he is a complete moron with a list of indiscretions to put it mildly and deserves everything he gets.

[Shaun1967]

That is the issue it was more than just 1 person drinking and no matter which clubs were involved they were all told not to.

I agree. All the players out drinking should receive identical punishments. Any players guilty of other offences such as missing rehab sessions should expect further punishments.

The more you hear of our preparation for this tournament, the less confidence you have.

[markill]

So are we all convinced we know everything and all the reasons? I'm not convinced.

What we do know is Hock and several others broke a team rule - we don't know how far they went in breaking this rule, we can only assume. we don't know if they all broke the rule to the same extent either, we can only assume - did Hock drink more / stay out longer etc? We just don't know.

What we also know is Hock then missed/was late for other programmed events. We don't know if any of the others were as I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong) this has been officially reported. We also don't know what state Hock was in when he did turn up - better or worse that we're assuming? We also don't know what state the others were in.

I think its hard to make some of the strong or absolute comments some posters have made with so many questions unanswered.

There may even be other issues with Hock that the England management had over the past two weeks we don't know about. The statement said 'serious breaches (plural) of discipline', but doesn't say what or how many exactly. There might not be anything else, but the team may have been asked not to drink, but the instructed that they had to be at the sessions on time - the management may have seen the latter as a more important rule breach. Again, we don't know.

One thing that I do think is the method of letting him know is poor. The coach should have had a face to face with him, then with the other players, then a press release. Whatever he has done, any discussions about the repercussions should have been face to face.

[cpwigan]

At the moment Mark all we know is that plural = breaking a drinking curfew with 6 others and then missing 20 minutes of the next days training programme. We only have the word of Gaz Hock that he was training hard etc. albeit no criticisms from the management exist to dispute that and his selection for Italy seems to indicate he was.

The whole saga is a sorry mess and sadly typical of how our international set up is mismanaged season after season. Losing to Italy suggests a wider problem that not even the pantomime villain Gareth Hock can be solely blamed for. I personally find the SA jaunt so close to the tournament bewildering too.

[bobbyb]

what about team bonding the other drinkers should have said if hock goes we all go,and left the coach? in the brown stuff

[East Stand Faithful]

To be honest Hockgate runs the risk of being as annoying and tedious BUT far less money wasting (£1/4 million) as plebgate.

However, just to correct some half truths;

6 players incl Hock drank some alcohol contravening a team order. They then had something to eat. So we know they were not drunk / rat arsed etc etc.

Hock is a notorious bad time keeper so much so Wigan once appointed Micky Higham to chaperone him to training on time.

Hock was LATE for training (anybody here been sacked for being late once?) and missed the first 20 minutes before taking part in the video session. McNamara / England management never spoke / challenged him face to face there and then.

Hock was later sacked by telephone.

We currently have no confirmation who the other players were albeit some names are being frequently mentioned and we have no mention of what punishments they incurred.

Why in God's name they decided to do so is anybody's guess but IMO it was CRAZY, the RFL then went public fueling all manner of rumours as to what happened. Hock then replied to dispel some of the Chinese whispers that were circulating.

We now have a major opportunity to sell RL to Britain derailed by a crazy decision to publicise negative news which thus far centres on 6/7 players breaking an alcohol curfew and 1 being 20 minutes late for training.

Mountain molehill self harm

CPW some interesting points there.

Can I ask do you know for a fact that Hock did turn up late for training but managed to take in the video session after the swim?

The reason I ask is that he never mentioned that in his tv interview and it would have enhanced his case if he had.

He did point out that he was told by macnamara by phone he was withdrawn from the squad. Surely if he had attended the training session late he would have mentioned this (well anyone with a brain would have)

[Kaii]

To be honest Hockgate runs the risk of being as annoying and tedious BUT far less money wasting (£1/4 million) as plebgate.

However, just to correct some half truths;

6 players incl Hock drank some alcohol contravening a team order. They then had something to eat. So we know they were not drunk / rat arsed etc etc.

Hock is a notorious bad time keeper so much so Wigan once appointed Micky Higham to chaperone him to training on time.

Hock was LATE for training (anybody here been sacked for being late once?) and missed the first 20 minutes before taking part in the video session. McNamara / England management never spoke / challenged him face to face there and then.

Hock was later sacked by telephone.

We currently have no confirmation who the other players were albeit some names are being frequently mentioned and we have no mention of what punishments they incurred.

Why in God's name they decided to do so is anybody's guess but IMO it was CRAZY, the RFL then went public fueling all manner of rumours as to what happened. Hock then replied to dispel some of the Chinese whispers that were circulating.

We now have a major opportunity to sell RL to Britain derailed by a crazy decision to publicise negative news which thus far centres on 6/7 players breaking an alcohol curfew and 1 being 20 minutes late for training.

Mountain molehill self harm

CPW some interesting points there.

Can I ask do you know for a fact that Hock did turn up late for training but managed to take in the video session after the swim?

The reason I ask is that he never mentioned that in his tv interview and it would have enhanced his case if he had.

He did point out that he was told by macnamara by phone he was withdrawn from the squad. Surely if he had attended the training session late he would have mentioned this (well anyone with a brain would have)

looks like you watched a edited version since gaz hock said he missed swimming but went down with the returning lads for the video

[cpwigan]

No idea re editing Kaii BUT a couple of interviews I have watched mentioned he went to the video session.

How is this for in 'only RL land' The day after the sacking SL TV are showing a clip each day of an England player training. Today is Gareth Hock!!!

You could not make it up if you tried

Here is a thought because the 6 have not been named are we to assume that anybody not selected v Aus was one of the 6. I have no idea if he was and would think not BUT if I was Lockers I would want it screamed from every vantage point why he is not playing v Aus.

Two names have been thrown into the mix as being involved, why were these 2 dropped and the other 4 not? Did the 2 speak up?

Total Balls Up by England Management IMO.

[cpwigan]

The unity of the squad is IMO compromised. Why did the 6 not speak up, why did the rest of the squad not speak up. It would probably have destroyed what little control McNamara has but does that matter?

[East Stand Faithful]

To be honest Hockgate runs the risk of being as annoying and tedious BUT far less money wasting (£1/4 million) as plebgate.

However, just to correct some half truths;

6 players incl Hock drank some alcohol contravening a team order. They then had something to eat. So we know they were not drunk / rat arsed etc etc.

Hock is a notorious bad time keeper so much so Wigan once appointed Micky Higham to chaperone him to training on time.

Hock was LATE for training (anybody here been sacked for being late once?) and missed the first 20 minutes before taking part in the video session. McNamara / England management never spoke / challenged him face to face there and then.

Hock was later sacked by telephone.

We currently have no confirmation who the other players were albeit some names are being frequently mentioned and we have no mention of what punishments they incurred.

Why in God's name they decided to do so is anybody's guess but IMO it was CRAZY, the RFL then went public fueling all manner of rumours as to what happened. Hock then replied to dispel some of the Chinese whispers that were circulating.

We now have a major opportunity to sell RL to Britain derailed by a crazy decision to publicise negative news which thus far centres on 6/7 players breaking an alcohol curfew and 1 being 20 minutes late for training.

Mountain molehill self harm

CPW some interesting points there.

Can I ask do you know for a fact that Hock did turn up late for training but managed to take in the video session after the swim?

The reason I ask is that he never mentioned that in his tv interview and it would have enhanced his case if he had.

He did point out that he was told by macnamara by phone he was withdrawn from the squad. Surely if he had attended the training session late he would have mentioned this (well anyone with a brain would have)

looks like you watched a edited version since gaz hock said he missed swimming but went down with the returning lads for the video

Yes I watched the 130 news which was the first edited version.

This paints macnamara in a very poor light in that he didn't have the balls to tell him to his face.

This doesn't however, mean hock is less guilty.

For me England management should have banned and fined Hock more than the others involved but this should all have been kept within the camp.

IMO this is the lowest point in British RL in all the time I can remember when you consider this sorry saga coupled with the leneghan led revolt against the RFL (I don't blame leneghan by the way ) following on from a defeat by Italy on home soil.

We are in for a tonking against the Aussies I fear and the only positive will be the end of macnamara