Nothing amazing

[KOOCH]

Correct.Nothing amazing but we have been humbled tonight. Questions still got to be asked.Would it have been another story if we had Lockers,Flower,Charnley,Thornley etc at our disposal.Not a true reflection.That said the rhino's on the night are the better team with bragging rights on this ocassion. Trophy's at the end of season are what count.

Think you are clutching at straws with that.

We are all clutching at straws DaveO.The performance simply was not good enough.Consequently we find ourselves looking for certain players to blame for a bad performance. Unfortunately you can only play with those players that are available and who you think will fit the puzzle.We know Sargeson is simply not good enough,that is why I mentioned Thornley. Clubb is not a lockers.these are only examples.But I do feel that flower contributes an awful lot.And we all know what Charnley can do when fit. This is why I firmly believe that come Magic weekend we will see a better performance.I also still fancy us for silverware. Cp is and was in my opinion correct in that Leeds did nothing amazing.We allowed them to play.

[Southern Softy]

I think we can beat any other side but only if we have our very best team out.

A set of backs Gelling - Goulding- Sarginson-Burgess will always leak tries. Gelling was fine in attack (although has no pace for a winger) but hopeless in defence - ditto Sarginson. Burgess is learning (and improving) while Goulding will be fine when Josh comes back. That left side is a major problem and needs to be sorted out as we did in the past when Joel Tomkins was drafted in to the centres. A case for Bateman perhaps?

As for the rest - Dudson looks shot - Clubb is a bit bulky for a second-rower and I don't think Jack Hughes knows how or where he wants to play. Green was excellent but where was the support when he broke? And did MM finish up playing at loose-forward? Contrary to Sky - I thought the ageing Leeds forwards were matched mostly by us - it was their backs who killed us.

No qualms about the result although Peacock's knock-on (on the half-volley!!!!!) was a travesty and Sky replays also showed Peacock leading with a very nasty forearm but the Leeds fan club didn't want to talk about it so it was shelved.

I do worry about the depth of our squad. We're struggling in the backs and with Flower out, there's no proper stand-in for SOL. Williams is doing well though and Taylor is a gem.

[cpwigan]

Correct.Nothing amazing but we have been humbled tonight. Questions still got to be asked.Would it have been another story if we had Lockers,Flower,Charnley,Thornley etc at our disposal.Not a true reflection.That said the rhino's on the night are the better team with bragging rights on this ocassion. Trophy's at the end of season are what count.

Think you are clutching at straws with that.

We are all clutching at straws DaveO.The performance simply was not good enough.Consequently we find ourselves looking for certain players to blame for a bad performance. Unfortunately you can only play with those players that are available and who you think will fit the puzzle.We know Sargeson is simply not good enough,that is why I mentioned Thornley. Clubb is not a lockers.these are only examples.But I do feel that flower contributes an awful lot.And we all know what Charnley can do when fit. This is why I firmly believe that come Magic weekend we will see a better performance.I also still fancy us for silverware. Cp is and was in my opinion correct in that Leeds did nothing amazing.We allowed them to play.

I think Kooch is correct what concerns me is that Wane coaches 1 way irrespective of the players at his disposal and the opposition.

We had a faster team out wide / on the edge than ourselves and yet we try to go outside them. The coach said the players were dumb but I would argue their coach was the dumb one!

Sinfield was always going to hooker at some point. The Leeds front row are on their last legs age wise yet we never took them on, never wasted their energy and allowed Peacock to play 70 minutes. The four props must feel dirty that they let 2 mid 30s props get on top of them. Wane always rotates his props. Each prop should have used their shorter stints to drain the energy of their two older opposing props. Drain Sinfield too when he moves to 9. We never play down the centre. Is that dumb players or dumb coaching.

Leeds had no 9, they had a front row that is not agile yet our hooker, our halves rarely if ever asked questions of them. We had a 9, Leeds did not yet we never used our advantage instead playing to our disadvantage. Dumb players or dumb coaching?

Field position is everything v Leeds. Yes, they have an excellent kick return but they need it. We rarely, almost never controlled field position. We never asked Peacock or Lu Lu to cart the ball from their own 20. Did Leeds look much better defending their line than ourselves. The huge advantage they had is that we hardly played in their 20, they played most of the game in ours. We never put a better kicker in field positions where he would be under pressure. We were out thought and out fought; dumb players or dumb coaching?

One of the greatest NRL coaches ever always stated your game plan is based on the strengths of your players NOT how you want to play. Tony Pulis was talking yesterday re Crystal Palace; "I looked at the strengths of the players and coached to those strengths. I did not ask them to do things they could not". SMART COACHES / MANAGERS.

[Owd Codger]

Leeds remind me of Wigan under Madge, a smothering defence in numbers much changed from last season. A risk free brand of rugby they will be hard to beat this season and with that I tip them to do the treble and win he lot.

Wigan simply don't have the punch up front to trouble the likes of Peacock et all and don't have the pace outwide over Leeds either. They currently have the best fullback in the league and also the best 3/4 by a mile.

Injury free and flowing well they will have a lul around the end of next month but will fire again to go all the way. IMO Wigan are the only team capable of beating Leeds in a tight game and on evidence we simply don't have the players.

Correct. It is of course our own fault we don't have the players.

Unless we are lucky Leeds will, IMO, beat us in every significant game we play them in.

Like last season?

[cpwigan]

Wigan make winning games incredibly difficult and that is down largely to the game plan but dare anybody criticise Wane in the presence of WW

[TrueBlueWarrior]

CP your constant negativity towards Wane is becoming tiresome, I remember your WANEBALL jibes early on last season when we were playing in a very attacking manner and only won with a Plan A. We then beat Hull in the CC with clearly a Plan B and Wire in the GF with a totally different game plan, however your long post in this thread clearly states Wane only has one way of playing. Sorry but in my opinion of course (backed up by performances last season when it mattered) you are wrong!!

PS spill the beans please what has SW done to offend you?

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Oh and just to finish for a dumb coach his record isn't to bad, imagine if he had a brain!!

[jobo]

They wacked us twice last year when it didn't matter, we wacked them when it did matter. Nothing wrong with the game plan then, as there is nothing wrong with the game plan now. Main problem is that left centre position. Sort that out and we'll be fine.

[shaunedwardsfanclub]

I think that Leeds are beatable, but I do agree with CPW that we will only do so if we change our tactics. We all know that games are won in the forwards but we never tried to win that battle. I would like to see us punching holes down the middle and taking the gas out of their six, we will score tries in the opposition 20 but we need our pack to take us there.

Field position and possession are vitally important in modern rugby league. We need to learn lessons from the top teams in the NRL.

[cpwigan]

CP your constant negativity towards Wane is becoming tiresome, I remember your WANEBALL jibes early on last season when we were playing in a very attacking manner and only won with a Plan A. We then beat Hull in the CC with clearly a Plan B and Wire in the GF with a totally different game plan, however your long post in this thread clearly states Wane only has one way of playing. Sorry but in my opinion of course (backed up by performances last season when it mattered) you are wrong!!

PS spill the beans please what has SW done to offend you?

I could not care less who coaches us as long as they achieve what I expect of Wigan RLFC and I am sorry if that comes across as arrogant etc but I was brought up in an era when if Wigan played anywhere near their best then they would beat any British opposition and many Australian clubs. Clearly that is no longer the case but that is my Wigan Way from being a fan of the club live for 30 years+ and someone who has delved into the great Wigan teams of the past.

You cannot argue with the double, it is for all to see. Personally, I remain totally unconvinced by the philosophy of Wane / Waneball. If we wanted to be honest. We struggled to beat a Hull FC not through any change of tactic but because several players had nightmare games, most notably Crooks and we pulled off some incredible last ditch tackles. The GF, a fantastic end result but would we have won had Wire not suffered injuries? We were out of it for much of the 1st half. Therein lies the problem with the Wane philosophy, it defies RL logic,it reminds me of more 'decorated' Brits that came before him who talked of this mythical British way to play RL. It was bullshit then, it is now.

If you spread the ball 3 long passes wide you have immediately conceded the advantage to the opposition unless you can get around them. It is the RL of Widnes under Laughton and it broke down far more than it won the day in the biggest games. Whatsmore, Widnes had players to play that way; Wigan do not and certainly did not last night.

If you spend time, effort energy swinging the ball wide from one end to the other then you waste energy. It takes time to reset for the next lateral shift and results in a slow POTB which allows the opposition to reset their defence.

Far better to take Leeds old forwards up the middle and work for fast POTBs and get a roll. You can ziz zag around the POTB to make some of the Leeds tight forwards make 2 tackles in a set. Even better your kicking game gets better and better because you are on the front foot. McDermott RL killed Wane Ball last night and yet the coach had the cheek to refer to the players as dumb.

The RL Wigan try to play under Wane defies RL logic and is dumb IMO. Nothing against Wane and he can say I have a double so it works. Personally, I think it absolutely destroys his own players because of the effort they have to make to turn illogical RL into victories. Thank heaven British RL is poor at this present time.

If Wigan cannot put 4 props up against Peacock and Lu Lu and come off second best then either the tactics are dumb or those players are not fit to wear the shirt. I believe the former.