Go easy on Ben - It's only a game!!

[TrueBlueWarrior]

I would work out a way to get Taylor back into the fold. Who is a better player anyway. I also assume there are some big South Pacific forwards out there we could bring in.

Taylor has gone, getting rid of Flower because he COULD be out for 12 games so it MIGHT cost us the league (that no one cares about anyway) would be suicide!! We need Flower more than ever, he is currently our best prop. Yes he made a mistake but to say he can't handle the big occasion because he retaliated to a brutal attack is way off the mark!! You don't judge a horse after one grade one race!!

[Exiled Wiganer]

We would have won the Grand Final but for him.
If he misses half or more of the season that severely jeopardises our chances of winning next year, especially with Taylor leaving.
If he gets a one year ban, presumably we can de-register him for a year, and so we can sign someone else.
He let every one of his team mates down - someone like Williams might have only one shot at a Grand Final. They deserve to be given the best chance of repeating that.
I can see why people want to rally round him - I do too, as a person. But the club's best interests are not served by having this player jeopardise more than one season.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

We would have won the Grand Final but for him.
If he misses half or more of the season that severely jeopardises our chances of winning next year, especially with Taylor leaving.
If he gets a one year ban, presumably we can de-register him for a year, and so we can sign someone else.
He let every one of his team mates down - someone like Williams might have only one shot at a Grand Final. They deserve to be given the best chance of repeating that.
I can see why people want to rally round him - I do too, as a person. But the club's best interests are not served by having this player jeopardise more than one season.

Ben Flower did not punch LH for no reason, it's as if you don't understand human emotions. He was provoked and reacted. No LH smashing his face, no Flower throwing punches!! LH and the officials lost us the final because LH should have been sent off by Bentham, 12 v 12 very different final!!

He won't even miss a third of the season and will be back well before the business end.

To get rid of him would be madness, he has been a very good player for us and will be again!! Do you not remember his performances at Loose last season in the playoffs in Lockers absence? Yes let's get rid eh!!

[thegimble]

We would have won the Grand Final but for him.
If he misses half or more of the season that severely jeopardises our chances of winning next year, especially with Taylor leaving.
If he gets a one year ban, presumably we can de-register him for a year, and so we can sign someone else.
He let every one of his team mates down - someone like Williams might have only one shot at a Grand Final. They deserve to be given the best chance of repeating that.
I can see why people want to rally round him - I do too, as a person. But the club's best interests are not served by having this player jeopardise more than one season.

Ben Flower did not punch LH for no reason, it's as if you don't understand human emotions. He was provoked and reacted. No LH smashing his face, no Flower throwing punches!! LH and the officials lost us the final because LH should have been sent off by Bentham, 12 v 12 very different final!!

He won't even miss a third of the season and will be back well before the business end.

To get rid of him would be madness, he has been a very good player for us and will be again!! Do you not remember his performances at Loose last season in the playoffs in Lockers absence? Yes let's get rid eh!!

No point arguing people have opinions and this will not be changed.

Anyway though SL only really started when the play offs get going.

[Exiled Wiganer]

Actually I am very open to persuasion.
If he gets a short enough ban then I can see that we can form the view that he would be better than an alternative. If his ban takes him out for over half a season but less than a full year, then the cost benefit becomes very difficult for my money.
I think that a player who has brought shame on the club and destroyed a certain victory should be judged harshly by the club. That may go against the flow and I agree that the club should follow due process and must make sure that he is rehabilitated.
I will follow the club in whatever they decide to do. As a loyal fan. I tend towards thinking he should have played his last game for the reasons given above, but wi accept I L's decision.

[southernpie]

I'm getting fed up with this now. Ben Flower did not lose us the GF, Yes it was a contributing factor, but too many chances to score were squandered, we should have been miles in front by half time, who is to say categorically had Ben still been on the pitch we would definitely found a way to score more and didn't drop the ball, or mess up plays? No-one it is all guesswork. There were many different factors throughout the game (and before kick off ie MM not being available) that conspired to see us lose. We may still have lost if the incident didn't happen. We may have won if Bentham red carded Hohaiha (Or whatever his name is,) nobody knows unless they are clairvoyant or omnipotent.

Did Ben do something utterly stupid? Yes
Does he carry the blame for going OTT with the second punch? Yes with mitigating circumstances
Does he deserve punishment? Yes
Does he deserve the sole blame and vilification on here and elsewhere for losing the Grand Final? No

[adiddy]

Why are people so keen on getting rid of flower?? He's a quality prop forward, who's only mistake so far in his career was to throw the now infamous second punch!! For those who claim he can't handle the pressure of big matches, he's done all right wigans last challenge cup final and last years grand final??!!!!!!!



Matt

[robbobillinge]

Which St.Helens player said, earlier this year: "We just try to smash heads and then shake hands. Its only a game."

Answer:
Louis Macarthy-Scarsbrook

[josie andrews]

Its sad that its come to this but i think certain people (willnot mention ) should keep their fat traps shut let the lad take his punishment and try to put it to bed lets get back to the great game of rugby there is enough bad rivary with these two clubs without keep stoking the fire

Well said Suzieb, & all this calling for him to be sacked is just downright spiteful & crazy

[josie andrews]

I think we should do all we can to support Flower as a person. Make sure he gets the best advice and knows that the club does not believe he is a bad person.
When the dust has settled, I think we should sell him. He has brought shame onto our great club. His behaviour cost us a Grand Final, and they do not come along very often. It was painfully obvious that we could not have lost that game with 13 men.
One problem with our recruitment is that, in players like Dudson, Flower, Sarg and Clubb we have too many people who have learnt the game later in life. The sort of discipline and balance we see instinctively from the likes of Bateman and Joel aren't there under the most red hot pressure.
I do not say this lightly and wish him well, but I would not be unhappy to see him never play for our club again, and certainly can't see any merit in his ever playing against Saints again, as the potential for them to wind up him, the rest of the team and the crowd in the certain knowledge that any indiscretions on their part will be excused and any on ours will be magnified is great.
Flower lost us a certain victory on Saturday, tarnished the reputation of a wonderful institution, and made our job for years to come to win trophies far more difficult.

To end where I began, as far as Flower the man is concerned, he must feel awful, and which of us has not done something in a moment of madness that we regret for a long time afterwards. Consistent with due legal process we owe it to him to stand by him until he has come to terms with the inevitibly harsh punishment coming his way.

I hope you are joking? A guy makes an error & you want to get rid?? That's your first line of attack, then at the end you say to stand by him! Which is it??

Absolutely crazy!

I'm sick to death of all these holier than thou people who have never made an error of judgment in two explosive seconds in their lives!

Get off the bloody persecution bandwagon! The guy was/is devastated by it & it is totally out of character.

It's gone, get over it everyone.

Ben & the club will learn from this.