Re: BURGESS HAS LEFT BATH

[josie andrews]

At the England game on Sunday, some rugby union people were sat behind me. I overheard them talking about Sam & whether he would leave Bath as he had another few years left on his Union contract.

They were adamant that he was staying in RU, until I turned round & told them he had already signed to return to Souths next season & it was just the final details that needed sorting out.

So very glad he is returning to RL & more than happy that he is returning to Souths.

The Leeds interest was just a red herring

Leeds was not a red herring. They refused to pay for Westerman a transfer fee. So to make out that they are a big club with big money Hetherington comes out and says he has the ability to sign Burgess.

This is the same as Man Utd does now they come out with speculation that they are getting Ronaldo, Bale, Neymar but end up with Memphis.

Hetherington knows that this will keep fans off his back saying you want someone and actually getting him is another matter. Leeds has no intention of getting a marquee player in if they wanted to they would have got someone a few months ago.

If IL did this you can bet some on here would be going into meltdown.

The Leeds quote was meant to be tongue in cheek gimble, look at the emoticon

Look how many other fans would have gone into meltdown if it had come off though! I was told Hethrington actually offered Kallum Watkins as part of the deal. Don't know how true that was!

[thegimble]

At the England game on Sunday, some rugby union people were sat behind me. I overheard them talking about Sam & whether he would leave Bath as he had another few years left on his Union contract.

They were adamant that he was staying in RU, until I turned round & told them he had already signed to return to Souths next season & it was just the final details that needed sorting out.

So very glad he is returning to RL & more than happy that he is returning to Souths.

The Leeds interest was just a red herring

Leeds was not a red herring. They refused to pay for Westerman a transfer fee. So to make out that they are a big club with big money Hetherington comes out and says he has the ability to sign Burgess.

This is the same as Man Utd does now they come out with speculation that they are getting Ronaldo, Bale, Neymar but end up with Memphis.

Hetherington knows that this will keep fans off his back saying you want someone and actually getting him is another matter. Leeds has no intention of getting a marquee player in if they wanted to they would have got someone a few months ago.

If IL did this you can bet some on here would be going into meltdown.

The Leeds quote was meant to be tongue in cheek gimble, look at the emoticon

Look how many other fans would have gone into meltdown if it had come off though! I was told Hethrington actually offered Kallum Watkins as part of the deal. Don't know how true that was!

I bet Watkins feels loved at Leeds right now if that is true.

[DaveO]

Some of the reaction I have seen from Union pundits is one of disappointment in the way this has been handled by RU as a sport not blaming Burgess as such.

I think it might have been Will Greenwood who tweeted RU had badly let Burgess down. I saw others saying he was a massive loss to their sport.

We don't know the whole story but if RU pundits are saying their sport let him down maybe there is something in that.

Playing him at centre when Bath were (rightly in my view) training him as a flanker in the Internationals was stupid and showed RU in a very bad light.

It is as if they were desperate to get him into the side at any cost and so not only played him in an unfamiliar position but left out centre's who were more experienced than him.

This is entirely the RFU's and England RU's fault but the inevitable fall out from that cock up and the blame game that followed would annoy anyone. It is the kind of straw that can break the camels back if you are not entirely happy off-field which it seems he wasn't.

What RU didn't seem to realise is moving to them for a player of his standing isn't a one way ticket. The NRL can offer him an equally lucrative living and so if now the world cup is over he is being lined up as one of the scapegoats why would he not just say stuff you?

He'd have another four years to put up with it before the next RU world cup and why when your career is so short would you adopt a pig headed approach of trying to prove people who were willing you to fail wrong just to shut them up? Life for a sportsman is too short and he has an excellent alternative so he's taken it.

Perhaps now players will look twice before going to RU given this is what can happen.

We will still have the problem of the NRL being able to buy who they want but I think today RU looks a lot less attractive despite the cash on offer.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Some of the reaction I have seen from Union pundits is one of disappointment in the way this has been handled by RU as a sport not blaming Burgess as such.

I think it might have been Will Greenwood who tweeted RU had badly let Burgess down. I saw others saying he was a massive loss to their sport.

We don't know the whole story but if RU pundits are saying their sport let him down maybe there is something in that.

Playing him at centre when Bath were (rightly in my view) training him as a flanker in the Internationals was stupid and showed RU in a very bad light.

It is as if they were desperate to get him into the side at any cost and so not only played him in an unfamiliar position but left out centre's who were more experienced than him.

This is entirely the RFU's and England RU's fault but the inevitable fall out from that cock up and the blame game that followed would annoy anyone. It is the kind of straw that can break the camels back if you are not entirely happy off-field which it seems he wasn't.

What RU didn't seem to realise is moving to them for a player of his standing isn't a one way ticket. The NRL can offer him an equally lucrative living and so if now the world cup is over he is being lined up as one of the scapegoats why would he not just say stuff you?

He'd have another four years to put up with it before the next RU world cup and why when your career is so short would you adopt a pig headed approach of trying to prove people who were willing you to fail wrong just to shut them up? Life for a sportsman is too short and he has an excellent alternative so he's taken it.

Perhaps now players will look twice before going to RU given this is what can happen.

We will still have the problem of the NRL being able to buy who they want but I think today RU looks a lot less attractive despite the cash on offer.

Absolutely spot on!!

[thegimble]

Reality has just hit a few union fans. They are now blaming Burgess for been greedy. Apparently he was negotiating the day after the Australia defeat.

If they actually heard one of the South's people on Sky this am he was going back regardless. Apparently he was texting Madge during the NRL GF and realised how much he miss the game.

Good to see some kick and clap fans kicking off for a change.

[robbobillinge]

Good article in the Guardian online today, plus all the usual stuff in the comments.
Sorry Josie, haven't got the skills to make the link!


It would be nice if SB at least came on to the field at DW!

[widdenoldboy]

Good post.

I could sort of see what England were thinking, "we have a decent team and an impact player coming off the bench could push us over the line". SB started against Wales, to be fair he didn't let anyone down and actually marked his opposite out the game.

Hard to understand, then, having little game time v Aus and then to be dropped for the last game was nuts.

This may be what made his mind up!

[cpwigan]

Union turned on Sam big time when it started going pear-shaped for England. Ironically, taking Sam off v Wales was probably the biggest blunder England made.

Once Sam decided to leave the next targets were / are the coaches. If England RU fail the reaction is on a different level to Wales, Scotland and Ireland failing.

I think Sam would have been better at 6 than centre but I do think he could have in the right team/game plan made centre work too. Sadly for RU, why would anybody put yourself through the assassination by media that the English RU team face when you can go back to Aus, be loves and be with family, in your futures wives country.

[DaveO]

Good post.

I could sort of see what England were thinking, "we have a decent team and an impact player coming off the bench could push us over the line". SB started against Wales, to be fair he didn't let anyone down and actually marked his opposite out the game.

Hard to understand, then, having little game time v Aus and then to be dropped for the last game was nuts.

This may be what made his mind up!

I think it was pretty obvious the England management used him as a scapegoat once they were out of the WC before the last game.

England were well out of it v Australia before he took to the pitch and as you say he marked his opposite out of the game v Wales.

If they had any interest in not using him as the fall guy they would have played him for the full 80 in the last game to get some more experience and also to give him a chance to silence his critics. The fact they didn't says a lot.

If family and a career are on offer back in Oz why stick around when that sort of petty stuff is going on?

The England RU player to benefit most from this saga is Englands other centre Brad Barritt who was worse than Burgess and no one is talking about him. He was mostly rubbish but because of the Burgess saga he has slipped under the radar. Lucky chap!

[thegimble]

Union turned on Sam big time when it started going pear-shaped for England. Ironically, taking Sam off v Wales was probably the biggest blunder England made.

Once Sam decided to leave the next targets were / are the coaches. If England RU fail the reaction is on a different level to Wales, Scotland and Ireland failing.

I think Sam would have been better at 6 than centre but I do think he could have in the right team/game plan made centre work too. Sadly for RU, why would anybody put yourself through the assassination by media that the English RU team face when you can go back to Aus, be loves and be with family, in your futures wives country.

Replacing SB was not England's biggest mistake. It was in actually buying him in the first place if they only intended to bring him in on a 3 year deal which gave him 20-30 games to go from a club union player to full international player.

Andy Farrell has a lot to answer for and he is going to carry the can for this. He wanted him in the squad when he was not ready. Shutting a player down for 60 minutes and not creating anything for his outside player is not good enough. Gelling has been hammered for not releasing his winger. Farrell apparently wanted him in the squad instead of the regular squad centre and pushed for him to play.

SB was nowhere ready for the World Cup and it showed he should have gone this season and got ready for the next World Cup instead England looked at the draw and panicked. Wales 2-3 centres are the best in Europe. More than likely Jamie Roberts is the best centre in the game. But he has hard years of playing in that position so it was unfair for anyone to except Burgess to develop in less than a year to a class Centre. Especially since he was playing in the pack for Bath. His treatment is well portrayed by Greenwood he is right he has been let down by certain people who signed name and not the player.

If Sam Tomkins had not gone in NZW when he did I have a feeling he would now be in the position of SB. Farrell wanted something extra for England and went for the player with the biggest reputation not the best for the team he could get.

Its hysterical the reaction by some fans towards SB but if I got treated like that I would go and go back to where I know what I am doing and I know what a coach wants from me. The English RFU has just been humiliated on the world stage and to blame SB is a disgrace.

3 people are to blame.

Farrell, Lancaster and Ford. 2 will lose their position in the national side and the other has to get a good season as well.

From a Welsh perspective its bloody hilarious.

From a Welsh perspective that wants England to do well in RL this month has been the best from England RL in years. Player drain to union will now more or less stop. And its lovely to see Union fans moan about a player coming to league.