Re: Likely Team v's Salford ?

[shaunedwardsfanclub]

What concerns me is the fact that in spite of only playing two friendlies, two league games and a World club Challenge game, we have eight first team squad players missing because of injuries ie, Charnley, Crosby, Isa, Mcllorum, Sharrock, Waterworth and the Tomkins.

Three of whom have injuries from last season, while at the same time we allow Connor Farrell and Hampshire to go on loan.

As other clubs are also getting similar levels of injuries, it begs the question, 'Is the game now being played at too faster speed which is resulting in more injuries'

What do thers think?

I think that you have a good point WW. These guys are so big and athletic that it is inevitable that there will be more injuries due to the ferocity of the impact (equivalent to a car crash at 30mph), having said that MM was just unlucky against Brisbane. We could possibly reduce the 10m rule to 5m to lessen the impact.As you say the club were aware that Sam, Dom and Jake would miss several months of rugby and therefore it begs the question why players were allowed to go on loan at the start of the season.

[DaveO]

Tierney has been brilliant defensively if not lacking in attack. i would go as far to say that he has been better than tomkins was for us before he left in that aspect.

Brilliant defensively? Give over. You weren't at the Brisbane game then where he was actually not even in a position to be anything, brilliant or otherwise, because he was nowhere in sight defensively!

And as to suggesting he has been better than Tomkins before he left if you carry on coming out with statements like that no one will take you seriously.

first 2 superleague games Tierney was excellent in defense.
as for the brisbane game. we got destroyed and many senior players made errors such as leaving one defender vs 3 on a scrum (sarge).

and i said Tierney was better defensively than Tomkins.i did not say he was better than Tomkins,(maybe a bit of a strong statement with hind-site) but i still remember tomkins defensive issues under the highball,(probably been dealt with while in the NRL).

and everyone is entitled to opinions right or wrong.

Calling Tierney Brilliant or Excellent defensively can't be disguised as an opinion when it's a complete exaggeration. You can't get any better than that so what you gong to call him if he actually has a good game? World class?

As to Brisbane I thought you might say what you did but that doesn't excuse him for not being anywhere near the right place for 90% of the match. Other players did their correct job but were just faced with better players. He didn't even do his job properly.

[DaveO]

It probably will be this:

Tierney,
Manfredi, Gelling, Sarginson, Gildart,
Williams, Smith,
Flower, Powell, Mossop,
Farrell, Bateman,
O'Loughlin.

Tautai, Clubb, Sutton, Gregson.

I don't know how anyone can read this bit and not weep:

Tierney,
Manfredi, Gelling, Sarginson, Gildart

That has got to be one of the worst quality/experienced back lines we have had in the last 20 years.

For all the potential of Manfredi and Gildart (who is out of position as it is) they lack experience and won't see much ball anyway.

[Owd Codger]

It probably will be this:

Tierney,
Manfredi, Gelling, Sarginson, Gildart,
Williams, Smith,
Flower, Powell, Mossop,
Farrell, Bateman,
O'Loughlin.

Tautai, Clubb, Sutton, Gregson.

I don't know how anyone can read this bit and not weep:

Tierney,
Manfredi, Gelling, Sarginson, Gildart

That has got to be one of the worst quality/experienced back lines we have had in the last 20 years.

For all the potential of Manfredi and Gildart (who is out of position as it is) they lack experience and won't see much ball anyway.

I agreed that we do need more experienced players in the squad, but one of the main reasons whey the backs are not operating as they should do is the lack of opening up the defence from the half backs, especially the Stand Off who is supposed to be the main playmaker.

A postion which as far as I am concerned has not been filled since the departure of Green and before him, Finch.

Yes, Williams does play well on occasions, but is not consistant enough in the role of Stand Off, but I don't blame him as his best position is Scrum Half and has only been put there because of Smith being the Scrum Half on a contract until 2018.

As a result, a natural Stand Off in the form of Hampshire who played well with Williams in the Academy has had to go on loan to another club as he cannot now get into the team at Stand Off and now as a result of the early return of Sam, not even Full Back where Wane had him earmarked for that position.

Plus the fact that the pair of them are not blending together in same way as Sinfield/McGuire were at Leeds, Brown /Mellor at Widnes (both ex Wigan players) and some of the other half back combinations in our game.

In other words, we need a top class experienced playmaker Stand Off alongside Williams or Smith.

Nothing wrong with most of the squad, but it does lack experience in key positions either due to non signings or in the case of Sam and Mickey Mac, bad injuries.

[cpwigan]

I would think Burke will get a bench spot Dave. IIRC, Gregson is a lefty and Faz tend to play 80 minutes.

[deancartwright1990]

A few good and interesting line ups being suggested,

would like to see Sarginson at full back all season tbh with ST in the halves, but with regards to Salford,

id run

Tierney
Manfredi
Sarginson
Gildart
Fell (give the lad a go)

Williams
Smith (if they are available, heard both 50/50)

Flower
Powell
Burke

Gelling (the yards he makes and the size, think he would be great in the pack, and Farrell has had a slow start IMO)
Bateman
Lockers

Bretherton/Gregson
Farrell
Sutton
Tautai

......... wonder if Connor Farrell would have stayed at Wigan if he had the power of hindsight

[shaunedwardsfanclub]

It probably will be this:

Tierney,
Manfredi, Gelling, Sarginson, Gildart,
Williams, Smith,
Flower, Powell, Mossop,
Farrell, Bateman,
O'Loughlin.

Tautai, Clubb, Sutton, Gregson.

I don't know how anyone can read this bit and not weep:

Tierney,
Manfredi, Gelling, Sarginson, Gildart

That has got to be one of the worst quality/experienced back lines we have had in the last 20 years.

For all the potential of Manfredi and Gildart (who is out of position as it is) they lack experience and won't see much ball anyway.

I agreed that we do need more experienced players in the squad, but one of the main reasons whey the backs are not operating as they should do is the lack of opening up the defence from the half backs, especially the Stand Off who is supposed to be the main playmaker.

A postion which as far as I am concerned has not been filled since the departure of Green and before him, Finch.

Yes, Williams does play well on occasions, but is not consistant enough in the role of Stand Off, but I don't blame him as his best position is Scrum Half and has only been put there because of Smith being the Scrum Half on a contract until 2018.

As a result, a natural Stand Off in the form of Hampshire who played well with Williams in the Academy has had to go on loan to another club as he cannot now get into the team at Stand Off and now as a result of the early return of Sam, not even Full Back where Wane had him earmarked for that position.

Plus the fact that the pair of them are not blending together in same way as Sinfield/McGuire were at Leeds, Brown /Mellor at Widnes (both ex Wigan players) and some of the other half back combinations in our game.

In other words, we need a top class experienced playmaker Stand Off alongside Williams or Smith.

Nothing wrong with most of the squad, but it does lack experience in key positions either due to non signings or in the case of Sam and Mickey Mac, bad injuries.

I don't have a problem with the forwards save for another quality hooker. The backs are a different problem altogether and the management must take full responsibility for the position we find ourselves in!

Our centres are simply not good enough, they don't have the required skill set and that has a great bearing on the performance of our wingers. The good news is that they work hard and they are terrific blokes but that shouldn't make them good enough for Wigan - perhaps they are simply being played out of position.

One injury to a winger and we have no cover that should have been sorted out from the moment that we knew that Budgie was on the plane to Australia. In fact Budgie should never have been on the plane he should have got a good contract, but that is history now. Gildart is not a winger he is a centre and towards the end of last season he was the best and most natural one we had/have.

I think that you have got a fair point about Williams, he is a fine prospect who again is being asked to fill an alien role. Ideally it should have been a fight between him and Smith for the No 7 jersey with the club recruiting a standoff if they thought that Rocky wasn't the man for the job. Smith had a poor season last year but was never dropped, what sort of message does that send out? As the experienced half back he should be taking control of games but like our centres he doesn't have the necessary tools to do the job. If Waney is not careful he is going to ruin Williams.

Yes we have been unlucky with injuries but that is part and parcel of the game and there is no doubt that Sam is a big miss but as Dave O alluded to our current backline wouldn't worry St Pats.

[nathan_rugby]

Wane won't though. Made his mind up about Tierney at full back, even though so far he's offered NOTHIING in that position. He may well do, but for the time being, whilst Josh in out he should adapt.

Tierney has been brilliant defensively if not lacking in attack. i would go as far to say that he has been better than tomkins was for us before he left in that aspect.

You must be joking?

[nathan_rugby]

It probably will be this:

Tierney,
Manfredi, Gelling, Sarginson, Gildart,
Williams, Smith,
Flower, Powell, Mossop,
Farrell, Bateman,
O'Loughlin.

Tautai, Clubb, Sutton, Gregson.

I don't know how anyone can read this bit and not weep:

Tierney,
Manfredi, Gelling, Sarginson, Gildart

That has got to be one of the worst quality/experienced back lines we have had in the last 20 years.

For all the potential of Manfredi and Gildart (who is out of position as it is) they lack experience and won't see much ball anyway.

I agreed that we do need more experienced players in the squad, but one of the main reasons whey the backs are not operating as they should do is the lack of opening up the defence from the half backs, especially the Stand Off who is supposed to be the main playmaker.

A postion which as far as I am concerned has not been filled since the departure of Green and before him, Finch.

Yes, Williams does play well on occasions, but is not consistant enough in the role of Stand Off, but I don't blame him as his best position is Scrum Half and has only been put there because of Smith being the Scrum Half on a contract until 2018.

As a result, a natural Stand Off in the form of Hampshire who played well with Williams in the Academy has had to go on loan to another club as he cannot now get into the team at Stand Off and now as a result of the early return of Sam, not even Full Back where Wane had him earmarked for that position.

Plus the fact that the pair of them are not blending together in same way as Sinfield/McGuire were at Leeds, Brown /Mellor at Widnes (both ex Wigan players) and some of the other half back combinations in our game.

In other words, we need a top class experienced playmaker Stand Off alongside Williams or Smith.

Nothing wrong with most of the squad, but it does lack experience in key positions either due to non signings or in the case of Sam and Mickey Mac, bad injuries.

It isn't just down to the halfbacks to create the space. It is down to players making runs which drags, sucks defenders etc, which comes down to either tactics, or a lack of understanding from the players.

We never hit our forwards firing in behind the POTB for 2-3 runs and then ship it wide when the defence is sucked in.

We never take it to the line and fire it back behind defenders which should create an overlap for Tierney or the Centres. Its basic Rugby League and something that should be bread and butter. Madge introduced it and was executed perfectly by Deacon despite being old and past his best. The abilities of the halfbacks could be greatly reduced if they had the knowledge and players around making the required runs.

Lee Briers for example - Terrible athlete with no speed, agility etc, but understood rugby league and how to create space.

[DaveO]

I would think Burke will get a bench spot Dave. IIRC, Gregson is a lefty and Faz tend to play 80 minutes.

Burke did well I thought. Caused problems for Salford.

Lockers started at 13, thank God.

Bateman lost his temper and let himself get wound up by the ref as well as Salford but Wane daren't take him off as he is so important..