WANE ,S

[Wigan_forever1985]

I think that IL and SW are both the problem, I think IL will always opt to not spend money and I think SW has an ego that tells him he can turn Willie Isa into the next SBW.

That's why I think Wane is safe in his job because I do think the pressure comes on saving money and I think SW reacts to this by saying "don't worry because I can coach anyone great"

The farcical actions of bringing players back to prove a point is another point here. The ONLY reason any of them came back is because they failed where they were - Basically we sold players good enough to go somewhere else and got them back because they weren't good enough to be kept there.

The bottom line is we are playing poorly, even when we win it's fairly poor. We are as a whole slow soft and inexperienced lacking direction.

I would say we are now back to a brain noble style of rugby

[East Stand Faithful]

What happened to the rules changing and there being fewer subs?

If this was to happen you wouldn't want big props. Could this be why the club has not gone for larger props?

What makes you think even if that rule change came in, a couple of big props would not be an asset?

We used to have big props long before the interchange got to this level. Team were not lightweight in the pack when there were fewer subs allowed.

In any case recruiting for what might happen just hands the initiative to those who have recruited for how things are now.

Yes you have a fair point there Dave. I was trying to come up with a reason we have not gone for bigger forwards after saying we would after the WCC.

[DaveO]

What happened to the rules changing and there being fewer subs?

If this was to happen you wouldn't want big props. Could this be why the club has not gone for larger props?

What makes you think even if that rule change came in, a couple of big props would not be an asset?

We used to have big props long before the interchange got to this level. Team were not lightweight in the pack when there were fewer subs allowed.

In any case recruiting for what might happen just hands the initiative to those who have recruited for how things are now.

Yes you have a fair point there Dave. I was trying to come up with a reason we have not gone for bigger forwards after saying we would after the WCC.

Yes, something needs to explain it unless Wane simply forgot he said it and only did so as it was the first thing that came into his head!

This "detail" thing is apparently the solution. The reason we got battered in the pack was according to Wane because:

“When you play against bigger bodies, your detail has to be good. And our detail wasn’t great,” he said.

When you’re detail isn’t great, you give penalties away, when you give penalty away, they march down field and burn you.”

From here:

Wane is working on the fine details

So obviously if we get the "detail" right we don't need bigger bodies regardless of what he said a few months ago after the WCC.

As he is an ex-prop forward I find our lack of size not being addressed very odd whatever this "detail" is.

[East Stand Faithful]

What makes you think even if that rule change came in, a couple of big props would not be an asset?

We used to have big props long before the interchange got to this level. Team were not lightweight in the pack when there were fewer subs allowed.

In any case recruiting for what might happen just hands the initiative to those who have recruited for how things are now.

Yes you have a fair point there Dave. I was trying to come up with a reason we have not gone for bigger forwards after saying we would after the WCC.

Yes, something needs to explain it unless Wane simply forgot he said it and only did so as it was the first thing that came into his head!

This "detail" thing is apparently the solution. The reason we got battered in the pack was according to Wane because:

“When you play against bigger bodies, your detail has to be good. And our detail wasn’t great,” he said.

When you’re detail isn’t great, you give penalties away, when you give penalty away, they march down field and burn you.”

From here:

Wane is working on the fine details

So obviously if we get the "detail" right we don't need bigger bodies regardless of what he said a few months ago after the WCC.

As he is an ex-prop forward I find our lack of size not being addressed very odd whatever this "detail" is.

It just doesn't make sense. He clearly needs to explain what he means by detail because otherwise it's a pointless comment.

[DaveO]

I think that IL and SW are both the problem, I think IL will always opt to not spend money and I think SW has an ego that tells him he can turn Willie Isa into the next SBW.

That's why I think Wane is safe in his job because I do think the pressure comes on saving money and I think SW reacts to this by saying "don't worry because I can coach anyone great"

I certainly think Wane believes his own propaganda and has an over inflated view of the younger players abilities in particular.

I don't see how IL can let this persist though. It would be OK if it worked but we have have been going backwards for three seasons.

I would say we are now back to a brain noble style of rugby

Been there for a while and as with Noble's last Wigan team I think a different coach could get more out of this squad. I doubt they would be GF winners overnight as there are some positions where the players aren't good enough more so than the side Madge inherited but a better coach would get more from it.

[menpond]

Repeat ,do not leave Josie. Posters respect your efforts,in the main. World is full of differing types and abuse is not personal,usually. If it is,and it upsets you,then think about it and make a definitive decision. Good luck,whatever.

[Mike]

I think it's IFL at the root of the problem. I think he is forcing Wane down a cheap as chips squad. I remember a few years back watching Wakefield and thinking they should not be in super league. That Wakefield team are better than the current Wigan team. Super League standards have declined drastically in the last decade and the decline in Wigan is even greater.

I totally agree with that as I've said it myself on here before.

So why then do you claim Scott Taylor left simply because he supported Hull as a lad in another thread?

Stop with your constant misinformation about his circumstances Josie. You constantly tell us all that your are "in the ear" of the players so how about you ask Scott himself, in person? He is a decent bloke, no pretensions and if you ask a simple question will not give you a fobbed off excuse. So ask him!!!

After Taylor's first season at Wigan was so good, Wigan decided to offer a new contract. The problem was that the club added an extra year BUT at almost half his money. He refused to sign. Wigan then placed him on the "outer" and he ended up at Salford for a season seeing out the last year of his contract.

Taylor is a professional player and plays for whomever offers the most money (and also chance of success of course).

Wigan now have the attitude that playing for Wigan should mean more than money - hence why players are leaving as they are doing. They are being offered lower wages.

Josh the latest!!!!

You what? Why did we force one of our best players out of the club by cutting his salary 50%? That is crazy, and frankly I don't believe your version one bit. The club may have its flaws, but they don't come close to that level of incompetence. I would be surprised if anyone believes that.

[menpond]

IL needs to watch it. The way things are going,Wane may struggle with the pressure,and may need help.Duty of care etcetera?

[ddtftf]

PS the best information does`t come from the players, but from the Managers of the players who are in the loop

Especially when they go fishing.

[Owd Codger]

They leave for Union, not because of being offered lower money by Wigan, but because of being offered more money from their clubs as a result of Union now having more money in a far larger salary cap and playing wise, the chance to play in bigger European Competitions and a higher International scene.

Why do you think Andy Farrell took his son Owen into Union?

He did so because he could see at the time he went to Union the two codes were going in the opposite directions where salaries were concerned and a higher profile in the media.

Andy Farrell is a bad example for you WW. He was on £250K at the year at the time he left having signed a huge deal with Wigan.

He was probably offered more to go to RU but any player on that sort of money would be a mug just to jump ship to a new code simply for the cash without a long hard look at the options.

There is no guarantee of success but in Farrell's case he may well have felt this wasn't such as risk given his career was coming to an end anyway. He lao may have just fancied a crack at getting into thE England RU side. I doubt money was the prime motivator.

As to taking his young son to RU did you expect him to leave him in Wigan when he moved down south?

There is more to that decision than just money as well. Owen wasn't an established player at the time and things may not have worked out for him in RU either. The fact they have done does not mean it was all part of a master plan on his Dad's part.

In any case the accusation is Wigan are doing it on the cheap not losing players because they are outbid. The supposed offer of a reduced contract to Taylor who wasn't being chased by RU or the NRL being the example given.

I am certain there players such as Josh who were they offered what they consider a fair wage for their age experience and skills would happily sign another contract with Wigan because they have no particular ambition to play RU or desire to move to Australia. However if they get offered reduced wages they will be onto their agent right away. That is to be expected.

Offer someone a reduced wage and you are inviting them to leave.

Only glad that you are not running my financial affairs if you think that today, our game can now compete with the more money and higher media profile of the present day Union and NRL.

Charnley is not leaving Wigan because of being offered any lower contract, but because apart from him getting a bigger contract in Union and possible higher profile International selection, he also sees the the chance of mixing with more celebrities from the world of television and films which from what I understand he already has been involved with on occasions.