cpwigan wrote:I do not think anybody should have to justify why / how they voted.
Why not? This was not politics where you can argue from a right sort left wing stance.
It affects many things going forward, such as your own kids opportunity to work and study in the EU. Which you voted to stop. Perhaps they will ask you to justify that in future and why not?
Some of the attacks on working class (a misnomer term) have been ludicrous. Large swathes of society have felt disenfranchised and disenchanted. Suddenly, an opportunity arose where their vote mattered for one of the few times in their lives and they took it.
This is a fallacy. The turnout for the EU referendum was very high. Far higher than a general election. If the working class bothered to vote in as high a number in general elections then their vote would have counted far more.
For example instead of the Labour party having to pander to right wing views in marginals in the midlands and the north, the working class vote getting off their backsides and actually voting might have prevented a shift to the right they sight as a reason for not voting Labour any more.
The old adage we get the Government we deserve is very true.
The electorate are lazy. Particularly the Labour electorate. My Grandad on my Mum's side was a Labour councillor and one time Mayor of Hindley. He never took the Labour vote for granted and always worked to get it out as he always said "Tories always vote". He was right and it is still true today.
One of the worst things ever done by the Stay Campaign was it never adressed GENUINE concerns and worse foreign leaders/several top business men/women TELLING voter that they must vore STAY. If you try to bully/pressurise people to do as you want they will kick back! Educated people voted to leave too, wealthy people voted to leave too, rightwing people voted to leave too!
What genuine concerns? The big one was immigration. Leave implying it would cease post Brexit was a lie. Remain saying so didn't fit with the views of the xenophobes and racists who hate immigrants.
As to telling people to vote to stay they didn't do that but even had they done so, voting the opposite way you were told to without actually bothering to find out if that was a good idea or not is just stupid.
I expect many right wingers did vote to leave. I am not surprised if so as they are often nationalistic, xenophobic and have an inflated view of the UK's position in world. Which is not untrue of many working class people as well fr that matter. Nationalism is a bad thing left or right.
As to educated people voting to leave I think you are wrong there. Anyone who bothered to exercise their brain for a minute should have worked out Leave were talking nonsense and I think the majority of remain voters fall into that category.
Cameron got his campaign wrong. The conservatives got their campaign wrong NOT UPSETTING / SPLITTING their own party was far more important to them than fighting for the vote.
They were already split and always have been. What they could not do was argue that peoples problems were down to their UK government not EU policy.
Corbyn, Labour were the really truly pro stay, did Corbyn and Momentum do all they could to get people to votestay? Worst of all, polotics took the general public for granted and ignored their thoughts. So Cameron/Corbyn/Westminster are far more to blame than voters.
Momentum? They were not involved in the campaign. They aren't a political party and as to Labour they DID argue it wasn't the EU's but the governments fault for most of what people complained about. It is just that Corbyn is not allowed a platform and even the left of centre media like the Guardian hates him so much they couldn't be arsed to cover him sufficiently.
As it stand other than media speak nothing has happened to damage people's lives since we vote to leave.
I didn't like getting 1.12 exchange rate on Euros this week when I went to Cyprus for work. I don't suppose I'll enjoy paying through the nose when I go to Spain next week either.
It will take time for the major consequences of this to flow through but a weak pound equals inflation, more expensive government borrowing and higher costs to business not just a naff exchange rate when you travel.
One thing that has happened is as I said before Spain has written to all nurses in the UK saying post Brexit time served here won't count on their career register. That kind of accreditation for nurses is a big thing so expect fewer to come here and others to leave. That will affect the NHS.
I voted to leave. I want controlled migration, a points system for entry. Any fool (hell people make a career out of it) can use vague/misleading/badly interpreted stats but what matters is what people can see/feel on the ground. I see / encounter lots of people and I kept saying all I hear is exit. What the politicians think is not what I saw in reality.
I am glad we have left the EU. It has grown too big and become another unwieldy form of bureacrucy.
You aren't going to get a thing you think you voted for. A points system will be used to allow in as many people as we need whether it's cheap labour for seasonal work on farms or professional people in other industries.
You have been conned. No one on the Leave side was in any position to dictate what happened post Brexit and you have no idea what the reality will be. We have to replace EU bureaucracy with UK equivalents.
All that will happen is the EU will continue to make its own rules without our input and anywhere we wish to partake in the EU such as the single market we will either obey those rules or be excluded. Meanwhile the UK government will make us all pay to support Brexit arguing we need to be more "flexible" as workers (rip up rights) and be desperate to make trade deals with the likes of the USA so TTIP will seem benign (NHS down the pan) .
And you think you won't have to justify your vote? Hah!