Wigan Warriors in Crisis?

[pedro]

Drivel

While i accept for 2 years now we seem to have had a disproportionate amount of injuries i don't feel like our style of play accounts for much of it. I think there are a number of factors.

I genuinely think its a problem for the entire league not just us but my theory is we are simply making the players too athletic, too finely tuned then asking them to be rigorous with their bodies. The game is played at such a pace and intensity now that its getting beyond what the human body can naturally handle.

In the past props were big blokes, wingers were little blokes and thats how everything stayed. The props weren't pumped full of protein powders and energy gels they were just massive blokes and they were slow and cumbersome (by modern standards) so while they were difficult to stop they weren't bringing speed or change of direction into the equation as much. They you had the little blokes on the wings and in the backs who stayed little because they used speed. They wouldn't mix it with the props as much.

Now however props are big blokes slimmed down and backs are little blokes beefed up. What this means is very few players are playing at their natural size and weight, Add to this the speed and intensity have gone up. If you line up a modern rugby team and took all their shirts away apart from making Josie very happy (couldn't resist) it would be difficult to tell who was playing where simply by looking at them.

Bradford in part brought this age of the big athlete in when they amassed a team of massive players who were also quick and steam rolled the league.

I think we will continue to see this trend of injuries because players aren't allowed to stay their natural size and weight. Look at rob burrow he played his natural weight and up until this last few seasons he was rarely injured, tomkins never got injured until he started to bulk up.

Drive a car over a speed bump at speed you will cause damage put 5 concrete flags in the back and do it again you will cause more

Cracking post & completely correct about the size & shape of the players physically metamorphosing.

At one time you would never see a second row forward playing centre!!

As for seeing the players without their shirts, my memory was definitely jogged at the Widnes game!!

More so when Lockers came to give me his shirt, put his arm round me & gave me a kiss :inlo: :inlo:

Ee, he's a bonnie lad ????????

betts, goodway, cullen and mercer to name 4 from the top of my head, its happened a lot

[josie andrews]

Drivel

While i accept for 2 years now we seem to have had a disproportionate amount of injuries i don't feel like our style of play accounts for much of it. I think there are a number of factors.

I genuinely think its a problem for the entire league not just us but my theory is we are simply making the players too athletic, too finely tuned then asking them to be rigorous with their bodies. The game is played at such a pace and intensity now that its getting beyond what the human body can naturally handle.

In the past props were big blokes, wingers were little blokes and thats how everything stayed. The props weren't pumped full of protein powders and energy gels they were just massive blokes and they were slow and cumbersome (by modern standards) so while they were difficult to stop they weren't bringing speed or change of direction into the equation as much. They you had the little blokes on the wings and in the backs who stayed little because they used speed. They wouldn't mix it with the props as much.

Now however props are big blokes slimmed down and backs are little blokes beefed up. What this means is very few players are playing at their natural size and weight, Add to this the speed and intensity have gone up. If you line up a modern rugby team and took all their shirts away apart from making Josie very happy (couldn't resist) it would be difficult to tell who was playing where simply by looking at them.

Bradford in part brought this age of the big athlete in when they amassed a team of massive players who were also quick and steam rolled the league.

I think we will continue to see this trend of injuries because players aren't allowed to stay their natural size and weight. Look at rob burrow he played his natural weight and up until this last few seasons he was rarely injured, tomkins never got injured until he started to bulk up.

Drive a car over a speed bump at speed you will cause damage put 5 concrete flags in the back and do it again you will cause more

Cracking post & completely correct about the size & shape of the players physically metamorphosing.

At one time you would never see a second row forward playing centre!!

As for seeing the players without their shirts, my memory was definitely jogged at the Widnes game!!

More so when Lockers came to give me his shirt, put his arm round me & gave me a kiss :inlo: :inlo:

Ee, he's a bonnie lad ????????

betts, goodway, cullen and mercer to name 4 from the top of my head, its happened a lot

I couldn't remember any

[pedro]

Bet you still have a poster of Betts on your wall

[moto748]

Tonight I was watching that last game at Central Park against Saints on Wigan TV, the game seemed twice what it is now in comparison. Even the NRL is dull compared to those days.

[pedro]

totally agree, for me was Robinsons best game for us and showed what a world beater he really was.

[josie andrews]

Bet you still have a poster of Betts on your wall

Nah, but still speak when he sees me ????

Now Sean O'Loughlin is a different matter

[pedro]

[Wintergreen]

Drivel

While i accept for 2 years now we seem to have had a disproportionate amount of injuries i don't feel like our style of play accounts for much of it. I think there are a number of factors.

I genuinely think its a problem for the entire league not just us but my theory is we are simply making the players too athletic, too finely tuned then asking them to be rigorous with their bodies. The game is played at such a pace and intensity now that its getting beyond what the human body can naturally handle.

In the past props were big blokes, wingers were little blokes and thats how everything stayed. The props weren't pumped full of protein powders and energy gels they were just massive blokes and they were slow and cumbersome (by modern standards) so while they were difficult to stop they weren't bringing speed or change of direction into the equation as much. They you had the little blokes on the wings and in the backs who stayed little because they used speed. They wouldn't mix it with the props as much.

Now however props are big blokes slimmed down and backs are little blokes beefed up. What this means is very few players are playing at their natural size and weight, Add to this the speed and intensity have gone up. If you line up a modern rugby team and took all their shirts away apart from making Josie very happy (couldn't resist) it would be difficult to tell who was playing where simply by looking at them.

Bradford in part brought this age of the big athlete in when they amassed a team of massive players who were also quick and steam rolled the league.

I think we will continue to see this trend of injuries because players aren't allowed to stay their natural size and weight. Look at rob burrow he played his natural weight and up until this last few seasons he was rarely injured, tomkins never got injured until he started to bulk up.

Drive a car over a speed bump at speed you will cause damage put 5 concrete flags in the back and do it again you will cause more

Not just in SL either. I was watching the Cowboys last night: Jason Taumalolo, he is a beast! How on earth would defences have coped with him twenty years ago?! Pace, power, footwork; I can't imagine trying to stop a guy like that!

20 years ago? they would have taken his head off, 40 years ago they would have killed him

That's just it. Who would have? The players thesedays are so strong in comparision to those of yesteryear that most wingers of today would be able to physically dominate most props of yesteryear (especially those from 40 years ago!).

The reality is that most sports are going through the same evolution, where physically the player who hits the gym, looks after himself is going to get an advantage over the rest. The resultant "arms race" get's us to where we are now. This is inevitable and there is absolutely nothing you can do about that.

The only thing that you can do is change the rules e.g. limit substitutions so that the "impact" players are less favoured.


I do agree with your sentiment though, this does lead to a higher likelihood of injury.

13 stones of fat/muscle colliding is less likely to lead to injury than 17 stones of muscle doing the same.

Veering back to the question, no I don't think we are in crisis (and sadly I am old enough to have seen some over the years).

[Wigan_forever1985]

Tell you what would be interesting totally as a curiosity exercise im not suggesting this as a viable option

If positions were to carry weight limits ala boxing. So for example a winger cant weigh more than 12 stone a centre 13 second row 15.

I think its the same for skill levels too, there a few specialists anymore from what i can see there are only 3 positions in a modern rugby team

Middle = 2nd Row, Prop, Lock
Back = Fullback/Half/Hooker
Edge = Wing/Centre

and you could easily downgrade that further.

[KaylaRobbo]

We are constantly being harangued by other fans about how we make all these excuses that we have all these injuries that are stopping us and how we fail to mention that all other teams have injuries. Then this guy decides he will use the fact that we have all these injuries as a reason for having a go!!

The pie-haters want to get together and decide which part of what we do they want to fling at us each day then they can at least be consistent!

This guy is definitely a Yorkshire man - his Twitter page sponsors Stanley Rangers in Wakefield and lets face it if they can't make something up to moan about then they'll moan for nothing!

As for us being in crisis - yeah - I have seen more than a few comments from us Wiganers in the past about how depressing and dire we are playing but I can honestly say that up to now this season hasn't felt as 'desperate' as it could have felt even with the recent spate of losses we have observed. A lot of us this time are like 'Ok we got a loss, we know the reason why and we'll get on with it'. I just see it as a temporary thing and I think we will be on fire later on in the season. I might be wrong of course but I have more optimism than this time last year and look at where we got by the end of the season!

Lets see if all the other teams can maintain their form towards the latter end of the season and whether we do indeed pick up speed towards the last few fences?? I'd put £50 on it....(and send a copy of this guys comments back to him with a bow on it to thank him for his help!)

And, Josie, if they want to play with their shirts off just to appease you then I'm happy to look the other way (but tape it for prosperity)