General election

[Wandering Warrior]

May is going to introduce in the manifesto no tax increases for those earning above 80k. Just this minute woke up, have I missed anything?

[Wintergreen]

Corbyn was asked last night if he considered himself a wealthy man as he earns,over £130k per year ,he replied ( after all the usual skirting ) That he didn't consider himself a wealthy man.Quite strange seeing that anyone earning over £80k is considered by him to be in the top 5% of earners and will therefore have to pay additional income tax as they are classed as being the rich and elite!!! I've been brain washed into believing it s wrong to vote Tory being a Working class Wiganer ,Son of a Miner ,brought up on a council estate,But you can bet your life that this time I will. Anyone who's worked hard all there life and built up a nice little family business as we have ,will get clobbered by these left wing socialist nutters .

its a shame you feel the tories are the better choice, they will never been the party for the middle class or working class. . i am not a Corybn fan but i am a labour voter, i don't wish to see my child growing up in a tory dominated britan where he has to worry if he can afford to pay for healthcare.....

but just on the interview, Corbyn may be on alot, but look how he lives and what he does with his money, he refused the recent MP pay rise and donates it away, barely claims expenses and rides a bike. May on the other hand flew a helicopter to bolton...

same can be said of Labour MP Andy Burham, hes donate 15% of his new wage to the homeless. can you imaging a tory MP doing this.

on the other side you are the first person in this thread to give a tangible reason to why they are voting tory and not just go Strong and Stable and oooo look corbyn looks like a hobo.

Interesting.

WHY? don't you think they will never be the party for working/middle class people?

I can tell you why I think they are:

They reward and encourage hard work, not to rely on the state for handouts, and leave more in the pockets of people to do with as they wish.

Conversely Labour have a vested interest in keeping people poor.


One thing I have never had a satisfactory explanation from a Socialist for is this.

Where do they think money is created? Do they think that "government jobs" do this? If it were that simple we could all be employed by the Government and that's it! Economy sorted! Hey why doesn't everyone in the world do it? It's a winner!

[up the junction]

Caboose i suppose it is a shame given my upbringing that i feel i can no longer vote labour and that the tories are the answer. After the Mines where shut down and the year i left school 86 ,my Dad started up in business with his redundancy pay and me and my brother started to work for him.We have done weeks and months without proper pay over the years and never sat,on our backsides and let the state pay .Why should i now vote for a party who want to distribute the very little we have made over the years to the lazy who don't want to work ? Also being business owners, Labour under Corbyn want us to pay even more in taxes while giving employees more and more for us to get less and less ! What we have ,we have and still do work very hard for and i personally don't want to share it with workshy scroat who spends his day watching Jeremy Kyle.
Socialism doesn't work.

[Wiganer Ted]

We have things pretty straight now from the Leading Parties.
May promising lower taxes with poorer levels of public services.
Corbyn promising higher taxes with higher levels of public services.

Labour today said they wouldn't leave the EU if there wasn't a deal in place. May used to say we will get the best deal for Britain. She hasn't said "No deal is better than a bad deal" for a long time. The idea of the Leave campaigners that we would get a free trade deal with controlled borders and no EU contributions is long forgotten.
The Lib Dems say they want a 2nd referendum.

All the EU has to do is list their demands and if they are not met say no trade deal. May will then have some controversial decisions to make. BTW the 1.27m Leave majority will have disappeared by 2019 if not before so she will have no majority and no mandate to leave.

How this all plays out will be interesting both before and after the election.

[Wintergreen]

Caboose i suppose it is a shame given my upbringing that i feel i can no longer vote labour and that the tories are the answer. After the Mines where shut down and the year i left school 86 ,my Dad started up in business with his redundancy pay and me and my brother started to work for him.We have done weeks and months without proper pay over the years and never sat,on our backsides and let the state pay .Why should i now vote for a party who want to distribute the very little we have made over the years to the lazy who don't want to work ? Also being business owners, Labour under Corbyn want us to pay even more in taxes while giving employees more and more for us to get less and less ! What we have ,we have and still do work very hard for and i personally don't want to share it with workshy scroat who spends his day watching Jeremy Kyle.
Socialism doesn't work.

And this is it in a nutshell. The people who take the risks in setting up a business, need to be rewarded. They are the ones who are creating jobs.

[Wiganer Ted]

Both capitalism and socialism work in different ways in the UK economy and are successful.
Plenty private firms doing very well.
The NHS is socialism. It works very well for most of us for most of the time.

[morley pie eater]

Caboose i suppose it is a shame given my upbringing that i feel i can no longer vote labour and that the tories are the answer. After the Mines where shut down and the year i left school 86 ,my Dad started up in business with his redundancy pay and me and my brother started to work for him.We have done weeks and months without proper pay over the years and never sat,on our backsides and let the state pay .Why should i now vote for a party who want to distribute the very little we have made over the years to the lazy who don't want to work ? Also being business owners, Labour under Corbyn want us to pay even more in taxes while giving employees more and more for us to get less and less ! What we have ,we have and still do work very hard for and i personally don't want to share it with workshy scroat who spends his day watching Jeremy Kyle.
Socialism doesn't work.

And this is it in a nutshell. The people who take the risks in setting up a business, need to be rewarded. They are the ones who are creating jobs.

Up the junction, I understand where you're coming from. My dad ran a small business and worked long hours most of his life. It seems that your point of view is not just based on your own virtue, but on seeing others as workshy or lazy scrotes.

In his late 60s, in 1987, my dad needed heart surgery. He was told there was a 6 month waiting list, but if he "went private" he could be treated by the same doctor in the same hospital that week! This was 8 years into Thatcher's reign.

Jeremy Hunt has said (2005 but not denied or retracted) that he wants to replace the NHS with "an insurance-based system". Today's Guardian has a report from somebody who worked long, long hours for Walmart in the USA. He pays $230 a month in health insurance out of $2000 earnings before tax.

Neither my dad, nor this American are workshy or scrotes, but unadulterated capitalism failed both of them. Socialism gave us the NHS, which the current Tories want to dismantle so that multi-billion pound companies can pay almost no tax, so the 5% richest can pay less. So Philip Green can sail in his yacht.

I'm not jealous of these people, but I do have some compassion and empathy for someone with Multiple Sclerosis, or a severely disabled child, and I think that there is, or should be, such a thing as society - that the state should support these kind of people (maybe including some hard-striving businessmen who fell ill, or had bad luck). We can only do this by taxing those who can afford to pay.

I hope you're never in need of help, utj. You're in your late 40s, I guess, and proud of what you've achieved for yourself. Don't look down on those "below" you. In 20 years time, your sneering comments, and your vote, may well come back to haunt you.

[Wandering Warrior]

Well put Morley. The trouble is that whatever situation is created to give empathy to the less fortunate there'll be folk who will take advantage.
Some years ago the Big Issue was set up to give the less fortunate a small leg up by giving them a purpose. Nowadays I go into Manc or Bolton town centre and folk selling it speak in broken English. I've leave the rest to the imagination.
Furthermore, take a woman who has had time off work to bring up kids. You need 35 years of NICS to claim a full pension. Bring up the country's future and get shafted!
For the record I've never voted for the CON party and won't be starting now!
The amount of BS that comes out of her mouth takes me back to when the Grantham Gremlin was sending a search party out for het son at my expense!!!

[up the junction]

In reply to Morley , The high earners pay more in tax than the rest of us as it is ,20% of £50k is a hell of alot more than 20% of £20k isn't it ? Therefore the well off are paying more into society as it is .As to the genuine sick and needy who need benefits ,that is what the welfare state was created for not as i put it the WORKSHY AND LAZY SCROATS which this country is full of ,there are jobs out there for those who can work ,they just choose an easy life on benefits because they are lazy and don't want to get off there backsides and graft for a living,i see it first hand every day ,people who think they are entitled to a life on benefits .As to me personally,in the early noughties i was diagnosed with a life changing disease for which i will need medication and treatment for life.At the time i was on hospital for weeks and unable to work,the business was going through a bad spell so i did what i thought i was entitled to and tried to claim sick pay after paying into the state all my life and having put everything saved back into the business to keep our employees in work.guess what ??? I got zilch in benefits and was extremely grateful for care i got for the two months i was off work .Since then i have had four lots of Surgery on a broken leg the latest being 8 weeks ago ,so i am extremely grateful again and in need of the Nhs and owe them a massive debt for the care i received and continue to do .My point was as i said ,why should i share my hard earned with the idle ,i didn't mean the needy and am sorry of you misunderstood me.
P.s i am far from Sneering and am most grateful for what i have .

[morley pie eater]

Up the junction: thanks for your considered reply. I used the word "sneering" only because that's how workshy and lazy scroats comes across to me.

Putting that to one side, let me ask you this, in all sincerity:

How can you say what you say about the NHS (and I accept that you are being genuine/honest), and vote for a party whose Health Secretary, appointed by 2 successive PMs, has a clearly declared intention to replace the NHS?

I've quoted this before from The Independent: "Jeremy Hunt co-authored a policy pamphlet that called for the NHS to be replaced by an insurance system.

The 2005 policy book, called Direct Democracy: An Agenda For A New Model Party, was a collection of writings authored by a group of Tory MPs.

Amongst other ideas, the book contained a blueprint for replacing the NHS with an insurance market system – and called for the private sector to be brought in."