General election

[Wintergreen]

The issue here is that the NHS MUST change.

It was conceived in a different era, where there were fewer people in the country, fewer treatments for conditions and people lived shorter lives (not only were there fewer of them, they died before a lot of the (now treatable) illnesses could take hold).

Long story short - it needs more and more mone- and it's been getting it.

Over £120 BILLION pounds a year.

Stop and think about that for a minute.


Finished? In that minute the NHS has received over £228,000 in funding.


The issue is not whether the NHS is massively funded- it clearly is. It's around what level this should be.

Like everything else it's scarcity and choice.

I wonder how much tax some of the Labour supporters who adopt the moral high ground actually pay to fund things like this?

It would be wonderful if we could pay a limitless amount into the NHS. We can't.

[Wigan_forever1985]

Why on Earth did Corbyn not do the debate on ITV? who is advising him? It could of been a real shot to May to show that she isnt a strong leader and she is scared of "debating" but he has validated her decision

[fozzieskem]

Wintergreen its grossly unfair to say the BHS needs to change it has had time and again with the internal market and other such nonsense which doesn't work.

Keeping people alive is a costly business is there yes of course agency nurses egg all cost a fortune but there will be no bursary for future student nurses because of another Tory "saving" so in the future more expense and tgats just one example.

This inept bunch of utter chancers will privatise the health service its well under way with the running of them being handed over to American companies.

A vote for this bunch is the death knell of the bus as we know it,most trusts have nice shiny new buildings so the stage is all set for the final sell off.

[morley pie eater]

Wintergreen, the tactic of making the debate into Labour wants unlimited cash versus Tories want a successful but affordable NHS may have had a small basis in truth in times past.

But (and I know I keep repeating this) the cat is now out of the bag: we have a health secretary who, with other Tory MPs, published their plans for the health service in 2005.

Here's a quote again to save you looking it up:
"Our ambition should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect DENATIONALISING the provision of health care in Britain, so extending to all the choices currently available only to the minority who opt for private provision."

They go on to talk about "replacing the NHS with an insurance-based system."

Now he's Health Secretary he doesn't broadcast these views any more. (And Saint Theresa has only let him out for 3 minutes since calling the election.)

But ask yourself "Why would Dave appoint a Health Sec who had published these views?" and "Why did Saint Theresa keep him on?"

Mmmmm? A no-brainer.

Clearly people like you are doing their job for them in trying to keep the debate about something else, but not all of the electorate are dumb enough to swallow it.

[Wiganer Ted]

For the number of people treated the NHS is running at approx 50% the funding of healthcare systems in France and Germany.
It is costing a fortune but the method of funding it has long since outlived its usefulness.
We need a far better and clearer way of funding healthcare.
Frank Field the MP for Birkenhead suggested replacing the NI contribution with a Health and Social Care Plan.
That IMO is the way forward.
Needless to say none of the main parties commented as they don't want to associated with anything as progessive but which would mean all of us paying more.

[up the junction]

Up the junction: thanks for your considered reply. I used the word "sneering" only because that's how workshy and lazy scroats comes across to me.

Putting that to one side, let me ask you this, in all sincerity:

How can you say what you say about the NHS (and I accept that you are being genuine/honest), and vote for a party whose Health Secretary, appointed by 2 successive PMs, has a clearly declared intention to replace the NHS?

I've quoted this before from The Independent: "Jeremy Hunt co-authored a policy pamphlet that called for the NHS to be replaced by an insurance system.

The 2005 policy book, called Direct Democracy: An Agenda For A New Model Party, was a collection of writings authored by a group of Tory MPs.

Amongst other ideas, the book contained a blueprint for replacing the NHS with an insurance market system – and called for the private sector to be brought in."

Morley , Its not just about the Nhs as to why I'm going to vote Tory .Ive been a labour voter all my life as have my family ,but this time I cant see how voting for retro policies as most of Corbyns are will help this country at all .Corbyn is stuck in the 70s .Can you really imagine re nationalising the trains ,energy company's and so on? The Country would soon grind to a halt.Next on the list the shadow home secretary The racist Diane Abbott. I have nothing at all in common with the Conservatives given my background ,but I feel I have less in common with this current crop of Super left wing Labour .
By the way ,this is how this board should be with decent discussion and opinion without the back biting and sniping .
We have more than the Warriors in common me and you ,See the Williams,and Mcillorum topic ????

[Wiganer Ted]

The Tories are repeating history.
When I became politically aware McMillan was preparing us to enter the Common Market around 1962/3.
This was following the Tory government a decade earlier declining to join the new Coal and Steel Federation. The reason being that they said "Britain would be better off trading with the World and the Empire". That didn't turn out too well did it?
Now we have this load of old rubbish headed by May saying the same things and about to make the same mistakes.
First off the Leavers said we don't need the EU as we could trade with the BRIC countries. That is well and truly down the plughole. Then some bright spark said we can trade with the Commonwealth, obviously not knowing the average wage is £80 a week. Then another said a free trade deal with Africa would be better than the EU. The average wage in Africa is £50pw.
By the time the talks end in 2019 the Leave majority will have disappeared with well over 900,000 Leave voters having died and far in excess of 1m voters under age 34 having joined the electoral register.
Even if this bunch of idiots take us out of the EU we will be back in the EU in 10 years as the demographic changes will force it.

[Welski]

Corbyn was asked last night if he considered himself a wealthy man as he earns,over £130k per year ,he replied ( after all the usual skirting ) That he didn't consider himself a wealthy man.

but just on the interview, Corbyn may be on alot, but look how he lives and what he does with his money, he refused the recent MP pay rise and donates it away, barely claims expenses and rides a bike. May on the other hand flew a helicopter to bolton...

same can be said of Labour MP Andy Burham, hes donate 15% of his new wage to the homeless. can you imaging a tory MP doing this.

on the other side you are the first person in this thread to give a tangible reason to why they are voting tory and not just go Strong and Stable and oooo look corbyn looks like a hobo.

this has to be one of the saddest commentsso far. the fact that only left leaning politicians donate to charity is incredulous the fact that some do it publically ie through wages is the point to consider here.

[morley pie eater]

Up the junction: thanks for your considered reply. I used the word "sneering" only because that's how workshy and lazy scroats comes across to me.

Putting that to one side, let me ask you this, in all sincerity:

How can you say what you say about the NHS (and I accept that you are being genuine/honest), and vote for a party whose Health Secretary, appointed by 2 successive PMs, has a clearly declared intention to replace the NHS?

I've quoted this before from The Independent: "Jeremy Hunt co-authored a policy pamphlet that called for the NHS to be replaced by an insurance system.

The 2005 policy book, called Direct Democracy: An Agenda For A New Model Party, was a collection of writings authored by a group of Tory MPs.

Amongst other ideas, the book contained a blueprint for replacing the NHS with an insurance market system – and called for the private sector to be brought in."

Morley , Its not just about the Nhs as to why I'm going to vote Tory .Ive been a labour voter all my life as have my family ,but this time I cant see how voting for retro policies as most of Corbyns are will help this country at all .Corbyn is stuck in the 70s .Can you really imagine re nationalising the trains ,energy company's and so on? The Country would soon grind to a halt.Next on the list the shadow home secretary The racist Diane Abbott. I have nothing at all in common with the Conservatives given my background ,but I feel I have less in common with this current crop of Super left wing Labour .
By the way ,this is how this board should be with decent discussion and opinion without the back biting and sniping .
We have more than the Warriors in common me and you ,See the Williams,and Mcillorum topic ????

I'm not arguing for Corbyn or every Labour policy. I've never slavishly followed one party or thought it's black-and-white between Tory & Labour like some people do.

But I truly believe than Hunt, with May's backing, will destroy the NHS. And with a big majority, the job will be almost done in 5 years.

There are no policies on any other issues that would balance this out for me. My vote will be to stop Hunt. Luckily our Labour candidate is a good local bloke, though we currently have a Tory MP - she beat Ed Balls by about 400 votes.

[Wintergreen]

Given the vast amounts of money poured into the NHS who do you think should pay for it?

Don't you think there should be a limit on it's size?


It's the 5th largest employer in the WORLD. Think about that for a minute (there goes another £258k by the way)