Substitutions and timing

[No straw damn us]

It's been mentioned on another thread that Wane likes to make his substitutions on the twenty minute mark. It's my observation that most coaches also do unless forced by injury, so I suggest that we keep a track of all the tv games to see if it is a general trend or just a Wigan / Wane thing.

[Panchitta Marra]

Would it be a decision between Wane and Bitcon to maximise players fitness levels and condition throughout the game.
Clubs do make like for like changes at similar periods of a game.
Just a thought.

[Wigan_forever1985]

McDermott went through a phase of not using one of his players on the bench at all that was the strangest interchange policy I remember

Wane will probably continue with the 20 mins I can’t see why he will change

[southernpie]

Would it be a decision between Wane and Bitcon to maximise players fitness levels and condition throughout the game.
Clubs do make like for like changes at similar periods of a game.
Just a thought.

As I said on the other thread each player is an individual so surely the best "change" time would differ from player to player.

[endoman]

McDermott went through a phase of not using one of his players on the bench at all that was the strangest interchange policy I remember

Wane will probably continue with the 20 mins I can’t see why he will change

Nick Du Toit IIRC never got on the pitch in the 85 cup final with just 2 subs.
The current policy is so predictable. With half time it gives people almost 40 minutes recovery assuming they start the second half. That's an absolute age physiologically.

[wall_of_voodoo]

I don't mind subbing by the clock. It's the immediate drop in intensity and fluidity I can't accept.

Happens almost every time we sub yet we persist with the players until it's time to "undo" the substitutions, usually when the opposition have gotten back into the game as well

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Most coaches freshen props up between 18-24 minutes usually!

[medlocke]

If today's players are supposedly super fit and more athletic compared to players from the past then why are there so many substitutions in today's games, the game in the past was more intense and enjoyable than the supposed superior Super League that we have to put up with today

[DaveO]

It's been mentioned on another thread that Wane likes to make his substitutions on the twenty minute mark. It's my observation that most coaches also do unless forced by injury, so I suggest that we keep a track of all the tv games to see if it is a general trend or just a Wigan / Wane thing.

And as I mentioned in the other thread, this is a waste of time unless you know what was going on in the game at the time in terms of which team was on top, has a player had a knock etc.

The context within which the substitutions are made is key.

If you are on top taking players off because you hit the 20 minute marker is a bad move. If I recall correctly Wane did this more than once last season and I think the best example was a game v Hull.

Likewise if a prop needs a rest it doesn't mean it's a good idea to sub two at once.

Last season it was pretty apparent that we were going better with some players on the pitch than with others yet Wane doggedly stuck to his watch in keeping a combination on the pitch that wasn't working as well when it was crying out for a quick reversal of the subs.

I don't care when he makes a substitution so long as it is made with a bit of thought to the game situation and if it doesn't work he accepts it has not and sorts it out.

[morley pie eater]

If today's players are supposedly super fit and more athletic compared to players from the past then why are there so many substitutions in today's games, the game in the past was more intense and enjoyable than the supposed superior Super League that we have to put up with today

I think it's about different types of fitness, Meds. If you train a big man for stamina, he can last 80 minutes. But he can't also be as dynamic. Mo Farrah and Usain Bolt have different types of training.

Props of the past had to last 80 mins. (In the 1965 cup final, we had 2 subs and didn't use either, iirc.)

It's knowing the subs are there that allows Bitcon to plan their training schedule to maximise impact in 20 minute spells.

Incidentally, what's often missed in these discussions is that a major consideration is not which props are best in a particular game, but keeping the best props fresh for the end-of-season run-in.

A few years ago, Wane said that Jordan James was "doing a job" for him. That job involved playing 15 or 20 minutes most matches, then dropping out towards the end of the season. We may have done better in individual games by not playing JJ, but would probably not have got to the GF, as the main props would have been jaded later in the year.

I'd go so far as to suggest that our GFs won under Wane were more because we had the freshest props at the end of season than because we had the best team. Last year's injuries prevented us repeating that, with FPN, for example, playing every game.