POWELL!!

[Suzieb]

Leave him alone if he plays he will give 100% as we will need from all our players.

[Wigan_forever1985]

Leave him alone if he plays he will give 100% as we will need from all our players.

Case and point

By your logic I can play for wigan

[First Try Tickle]

Leave him alone if he plays he will give 100% as we will need from all our players.

Who doesn't give 100%.

I'm not a big fan of Isa or Bibby but you cannot fault their enthusiasm. I think Isa often gives 120% but I still don't think he's good enough.

[Exiled Wiganer]

This thread is pathetic! Stooping to a low point I wouldn’t expect on a club forum.
You are supposed to support the team and its players. This is just feeding Powell haters. He is one of our own! You expect this shite on a rivals forum. Ok if he has a bad game a bit of criticism is warranted but this bile is relentless. It’s an embarrassment.

This isn’t a club forum!

This thread was created to stop other threads being derailed just to include Sam P complaints.

Sorry if this offends you.

I have nothing but admiration for Sam

I am sorry SWL is so upset by the existence of this thread. Personally, I can see the logic behind it, though think that the precedent it sets is not a good one. To be clear, I have not and have never seen any personal bile directed towards Powell the person, this is a debate about Powell the player.
It matters in the next couple of weeks because the biggest selection decision Peet will have to make will be Powell or O’Neill. It is important and topical.
It is also the first season that we have been in a position to compare and contrast O’Neill and Powell, and have seen with our own eyes the differences.
As someone mentioned earlier, the names don’t matter. The only question that matters is whether we are better with a 9 with a running game, or not. My opinion - and it is only an opinion, though one I strongly hold - has always been that, with our squad, we are stronger with a running 9, and I believe there is now plenty of evidence to support that.
I would be interested in the counter argument to the running 9/non running 9 line of reasoning. There might be one, but the argument I think is used most often is that the coaches know better than us and always pick him, without going on to address that question.
All that said, I will hope for the best, and this has been a glorious year whatever happens next.

[Wigan_forever1985]

This thread is pathetic! Stooping to a low point I wouldn’t expect on a club forum.
You are supposed to support the team and its players. This is just feeding Powell haters. He is one of our own! You expect this shite on a rivals forum. Ok if he has a bad game a bit of criticism is warranted but this bile is relentless. It’s an embarrassment.

This isn’t a club forum!

This thread was created to stop other threads being derailed just to include Sam P complaints.

Sorry if this offends you.

I have nothing but admiration for Sam

I am sorry SWL is so upset by the existence of this thread. Personally, I can see the logic behind it, though think that the precedent it sets is not a good one. To be clear, I have not and have never seen any personal bile directed towards Powell the person, this is a debate about Powell the player.
It matters in the next couple of weeks because the biggest selection decision Peet will have to make will be Powell or O’Neill. It is important and topical.
It is also the first season that we have been in a position to compare and contrast O’Neill and Powell, and have seen with our own eyes the differences.
As someone mentioned earlier, the names don’t matter. The only question that matters is whether we are better with a 9 with a running game, or not. My opinion - and it is only an opinion, though one I strongly hold - has always been that, with our squad, we are stronger with a running 9, and I believe there is now plenty of evidence to support that.
I would be interested in the counter argument to the running 9/non running 9 line of reasoning. There might be one, but the argument I think is used most often is that the coaches know better than us and always pick him, without going on to address that question.
All that said, I will hope for the best, and this has been a glorious year whatever happens next.

The most common counter argument to go away from Powell is his defensive qualities. Many believe that we require him in the middle of the park to stop teams punching holes in us.

Personally i have a couple of issues with this view

1) Powell is a good defender in the sense he doesnt miss that many tackles but i wouldnt say he is an impactful defender - i remember when Micky Mac played and he really did halt teams in the middle he would probably miss 1 or 2 tackles more than Sam but they would feel every tackle he made Sam is more of a classical "passive" defender he doesnt hit hard he simply wraps them up

2) More importantly its defeatist - the best way to win a rugby match is to score. Putting a team behind forces them to try and win, a team like saints will simply grind you down how many times have we seen this year them stay in a match till around 60mins and suddenly break loose. They are incredibly well drilled they dont make mistakes that often so they grind you down and capitalize on your mistakes. When they are behind they dont have that luxury they have to push the pass that isnt on etc

Its like being in a boxing match its great if you have a good chin, but nothing is better than a hard punch because a good chin wont change the way your opponent fights you, a good punch will. Same in rugby a good attack will always trump a good defence in the end IMO

[archiekeith]

Your posts are always a good read and of good substance. I think your final para contain for me a poor analogy and final conclusion. It's only my opinion of course which I based on the finding a. general definition for "good" in your analogy. I couldn't find one Hence a failure of commesurabilitywithin meaning in the alleged analogy. A good post tho.

[morley pie eater]

This thread is pathetic! Stooping to a low point I wouldn’t expect on a club forum.
You are supposed to support the team and its players. This is just feeding Powell haters. He is one of our own! You expect this shite on a rivals forum. Ok if he has a bad game a bit of criticism is warranted but this bile is relentless. It’s an embarrassment.

This isn’t a club forum!

This thread was created to stop other threads being derailed just to include Sam P complaints.

Sorry if this offends you.

I have nothing but admiration for Sam

I am sorry SWL is so upset by the existence of this thread. Personally, I can see the logic behind it, though think that the precedent it sets is not a good one. To be clear, I have not and have never seen any personal bile directed towards Powell the person, this is a debate about Powell the player.
It matters in the next couple of weeks because the biggest selection decision Peet will have to make will be Powell or O’Neill. It is important and topical.
It is also the first season that we have been in a position to compare and contrast O’Neill and Powell, and have seen with our own eyes the differences.
As someone mentioned earlier, the names don’t matter. The only question that matters is whether we are better with a 9 with a running game, or not. My opinion - and it is only an opinion, though one I strongly hold - has always been that, with our squad, we are stronger with a running 9, and I believe there is now plenty of evidence to support that.
I would be interested in the counter argument to the running 9/non running 9 line of reasoning. There might be one, but the argument I think is used most often is that the coaches know better than us and always pick him, without going on to address that question.
All that said, I will hope for the best, and this has been a glorious year whatever happens next.

The stated reason for this thread is quite clear - it's to stop the de-railing of so many other threads. So I don't see how your claim that no-one has made personal attacks on Sam P relates to the point at issue here.

[w.thomas]

Leave him alone if he plays he will give 100% as we will need from all our players.

Who doesn't give 100%. Paddy mago. So much more to offer is he gets fitter

[Caboosegg]

I'm curious to what the coaches see in Powell over O'Neil I see lots of posts from people saying O'Neil is better and use 4 games where Powell was out to justify it (as if the team would lose if he plays)

If its so obvious to the fans why to the paid coaches miss it?

The other argument that Powell doesn't get picked for England a poor excuse as I'd we apply that logic ever hooker that doesn't make the England/NZ/Aus trying squad in the NRL must also be rubbish ?

[Wigan_forever1985]

I'm curious to what the coaches see in Powell over O'Neil I see lots of posts from people saying O'Neil is better and use 4 games where Powell was out to justify it (as if the team would lose if he plays)

If its so obvious to the fans why to the paid coaches miss it?

The other argument that Powell doesn't get picked for England a poor excuse as I'd we apply that logic ever hooker that doesn't make the England/NZ/Aus trying squad in the NRL must also be rubbish ?

To answer the first bit - as said before Powell is a senior player he is also well in with the upper management. I would say if i was playing devils advocate you might see Powell as the more "safe bet" O'Neill might be seen more of a work in progress and that it may be too big for him at this moment (i dont agree with this im just theorizing)

The bit in bold is the usual deflecting the actual point being made by introducing a point that isnt being made. Take England in isolation as NZ/AUs tend to have bigger talent pools - If your an English hooker and there are at least 5 hookers ahead of you for the national team as picked by a coach who knows everything about you then yes it means youre not in the top hookers in the game. Not everyone outside of that is "rubbish" but they are either not there yet or never going to be there - Powell is in the latter.

So yes if we were wakefield or hull kr or another low end team that would be acceptable but we are meant to be one of the best teams in the league yet we have a hooker (a key pivot position) who has never been near the international set up.

When was the last time St Helens or Leeds had a English hooker that wasnt in or around the england set up? and who have been the most successful teams since superleague started?