Bateman

[Charriots Offiah]

Junior is a stand out performer at Reserve and Academy grade and needs to be getting the odd first team appearance. If we farm him out on loan or get in a more experienced player to cover Bateman's loss we potentially lose another prospect like we did with Nicholson by blocking his progression. Not ideal, but I think we should rely on Faz, Isa, KPP and Nsemba.

We need to spend up to the cap if we are to compete with that team over Billinge Hill. Further, it is no use blooding Junior unless we are determined to retain him. We made a bad decision re Nicholson and that involved giving Isa a two year contract.

[Mike]

Because keeping KPP is short-term thinking. There is little point in letting Bateman go if we are not going to recruit.

We've got a year to make the right decision on recruitment, because KPP is a good option next season. Why is letting two players go instead of one and overplaying a junior to their detriment (i.e. losing 3 players in the long term) long-term thinking? Its a straw man arguement - no-one is suggesting we do that sort of thing. No need to say that any is.

First of all, I didn’t say anyone did. Obviously, if a player is only here for one season then by definition that cannot be long-term planning. I didn’t suggest that we should throw Junior to the wolves, if you look back I said that we should keep Bateman or, if he is allowed to leave, sign an equivalent replacement. Just where you would get one from I don’t know but I am happy to be advised. By the way I like KPP but if Bateman goes then we lessen our chances of being successful. If you are happy with that fine, I am not.

Having a player for a season can certainly be part of a long term plan (like the one I outlined). Just like maximising value for money can be part of a plan for long term sustainable success.

I'm not bothered either way on Bateman TBH. He's pretty good, but not outstanding and we're paying him a lot. That's the way it goes sometimes, you can't predict the future form of players when you sign them every time. If we feel we can improve or keep the same quality of squad for the next 2-3 years without him then great, if we think we're OK as we are then that's fine by me too.

[Charriots Offiah]

We've got a year to make the right decision on recruitment, because KPP is a good option next season. Why is letting two players go instead of one and overplaying a junior to their detriment (i.e. losing 3 players in the long term) long-term thinking? Its a straw man arguement - no-one is suggesting we do that sort of thing. No need to say that any is.

First of all, I didn’t say anyone did. Obviously, if a player is only here for one season then by definition that cannot be long-term planning. I didn’t suggest that we should throw Junior to the wolves, if you look back I said that we should keep Bateman or, if he is allowed to leave, sign an equivalent replacement. Just where you would get one from I don’t know but I am happy to be advised. By the way I like KPP but if Bateman goes then we lessen our chances of being successful. If you are happy with that fine, I am not.

Having a player for a season can certainly be part of a long term plan (like the one I outlined). Just like maximising value for money can be part of a plan for long term sustainable success.

I'm not bothered either way on Bateman TBH. He's pretty good, but not outstanding and we're paying him a lot. That's the way it goes sometimes, you can't predict the future form of players when you sign them every time. If we feel we can improve or keep the same quality of squad for the next 2-3 years without him then great, if we think we're OK as we are then that's fine by me too.

What do you think, will we improve or keep the same quality without Bateman and without replacing him? By the way, that approach didn’t work in the past, we have lost good players and failed to adequately replace them, hence the reason we are languishing behind Saints.

[Dreamteam]

Looks more likely that John wants out so do we really want to force him to stay? We've had this situation many times and I think the club treats each case individually. Do we really want one of our highest paid players only staying because he's under contract whilst his Aussie partner wants to go home? I don't think we'll get a 'world class' replacement at this stage but we need somebody to cover for injuries/loss of form etc. We can't realistically expect Nsemba to play more than a support role next season. I'd be happy if we could sign someone in the "better than Isa but not top class" category whilst re-gaining a marquee spot for use elsewhere.

I am not suggesting we should force him to stay but it is unsatisfactory that the club should be put in this sort of position, it makes forward planning almost impossible. You are spot on, recruiting a replacement of equal standing is almost impossible unless we are willing to pay a high transfer fee. Poor planning has ensured that we have clogged up our non-federation quota with too many average players and consequently that will prevent us from signing a suitable replacement from down under as things stand. For some reason, other teams are not experiencing similar situations, particularly St Helens. We should be asking what are they doing differently.

You make a good point on foreign quote. Saints use the foreign quota very well with the exception of hopoate who was probably a very woolf signing with Tonga. Paasi easily would be our best prop and both SR would start for us as well. We’re wasting ours on average and squad players. Miski is a good back up but is wasting a spot, isa is a good back up and a good player to have but is wasting a spot, Ellis doesn’t do anything byrne havard cooper doesn’t do, mago you can decide he splits opinion. Field and french are the only ones you’d absolutely not want to leave. I’m quite confident we could replace cust although he’s got a lot of potential in him so you can add him into the field french department

[Charriots Offiah]

Looks more likely that John wants out so do we really want to force him to stay? We've had this situation many times and I think the club treats each case individually. Do we really want one of our highest paid players only staying because he's under contract whilst his Aussie partner wants to go home? I don't think we'll get a 'world class' replacement at this stage but we need somebody to cover for injuries/loss of form etc. We can't realistically expect Nsemba to play more than a support role next season. I'd be happy if we could sign someone in the "better than Isa but not top class" category whilst re-gaining a marquee spot for use elsewhere.

I am not suggesting we should force him to stay but it is unsatisfactory that the club should be put in this sort of position, it makes forward planning almost impossible. You are spot on, recruiting a replacement of equal standing is almost impossible unless we are willing to pay a high transfer fee. Poor planning has ensured that we have clogged up our non-federation quota with too many average players and consequently that will prevent us from signing a suitable replacement from down under as things stand. For some reason, other teams are not experiencing similar situations, particularly St Helens. We should be asking what are they doing differently.

You make a good point on foreign quote. Saints use the foreign quota very well with the exception of hopoate who was probably a very woolf signing with Tonga. Paasi easily would be our best prop and both SR would start for us as well. We’re wasting ours on average and squad players. Miski is a good back up but is wasting a spot, isa is a good back up and a good player to have but is wasting a spot, Ellis doesn’t do anything byrne havard cooper doesn’t do, mago you can decide he splits opinion. Field and french are the only ones you’d absolutely not want to leave. I’m quite confident we could replace cust although he’s got a lot of potential in him so you can add him into the field french department

I would agree with that and also add that Saints don’t have a problem with the salary cap. I have never understood signing average players from Australia, if we combined their salaries we could sign a Victor Radley. There are plenty of players in SL who can perform to the level of those you have named. There are also lads in the South Sea Islanders teams that would give us far more bang for our bucks.

[Charriots Offiah]

Looks more likely that John wants out so do we really want to force him to stay? We've had this situation many times and I think the club treats each case individually. Do we really want one of our highest paid players only staying because he's under contract whilst his Aussie partner wants to go home? I don't think we'll get a 'world class' replacement at this stage but we need somebody to cover for injuries/loss of form etc. We can't realistically expect Nsemba to play more than a support role next season. I'd be happy if we could sign someone in the "better than Isa but not top class" category whilst re-gaining a marquee spot for use elsewhere.

I am not suggesting we should force him to stay but it is unsatisfactory that the club should be put in this sort of position, it makes forward planning almost impossible. You are spot on, recruiting a replacement of equal standing is almost impossible unless we are willing to pay a high transfer fee. Poor planning has ensured that we have clogged up our non-federation quota with too many average players and consequently that will prevent us from signing a suitable replacement from down under as things stand. For some reason, other teams are not experiencing similar situations, particularly St Helens. We should be asking what are they doing differently.

You make a good point on foreign quote. Saints use the foreign quota very well with the exception of hopoate who was probably a very woolf signing with Tonga. Paasi easily would be our best prop and both SR would start for us as well. We’re wasting ours on average and squad players. Miski is a good back up but is wasting a spot, isa is a good back up and a good player to have but is wasting a spot, Ellis doesn’t do anything byrne havard cooper doesn’t do, mago you can decide he splits opinion. Field and french are the only ones you’d absolutely not want to leave. I’m quite confident we could replace cust although he’s got a lot of potential in him so you can add him into the field french department

One more point, it is the likes of those you have listed that are restricting the development of our academy players. The likes of Junior should be back up players not Willie. Bateman is not the problem.

[josie andrews]

Junior is a stand out performer at Reserve and Academy grade and needs to be getting the odd first team appearance. If we farm him out on loan or get in a more experienced player to cover Bateman's loss we potentially lose another prospect like we did with Nicholson by blocking his progression. Not ideal, but I think we should rely on Faz, Isa, KPP and Nsemba.

We need to spend up to the cap if we are to compete with that team over Billinge Hill. Further, it is no use blooding Junior unless we are determined to retain him. We made a bad decision re Nicholson and that involved giving Isa a two year contract.

We gave Isa a contract long before Nicholson proved his worth!

[Charriots Offiah]

Junior is a stand out performer at Reserve and Academy grade and needs to be getting the odd first team appearance. If we farm him out on loan or get in a more experienced player to cover Bateman's loss we potentially lose another prospect like we did with Nicholson by blocking his progression. Not ideal, but I think we should rely on Faz, Isa, KPP and Nsemba.

We need to spend up to the cap if we are to compete with that team over Billinge Hill. Further, it is no use blooding Junior unless we are determined to retain him. We made a bad decision re Nicholson and that involved giving Isa a two year contract.

We gave Isa a contract long before Nicholson proved his worth!

We gave Isa a two-year contract at the beginning of last season.

[Dreamteam]

I am not suggesting we should force him to stay but it is unsatisfactory that the club should be put in this sort of position, it makes forward planning almost impossible. You are spot on, recruiting a replacement of equal standing is almost impossible unless we are willing to pay a high transfer fee. Poor planning has ensured that we have clogged up our non-federation quota with too many average players and consequently that will prevent us from signing a suitable replacement from down under as things stand. For some reason, other teams are not experiencing similar situations, particularly St Helens. We should be asking what are they doing differently.

You make a good point on foreign quote. Saints use the foreign quota very well with the exception of hopoate who was probably a very woolf signing with Tonga. Paasi easily would be our best prop and both SR would start for us as well. We’re wasting ours on average and squad players. Miski is a good back up but is wasting a spot, isa is a good back up and a good player to have but is wasting a spot, Ellis doesn’t do anything byrne havard cooper doesn’t do, mago you can decide he splits opinion. Field and french are the only ones you’d absolutely not want to leave. I’m quite confident we could replace cust although he’s got a lot of potential in him so you can add him into the field french department

I would agree with that and also add that Saints don’t have a problem with the salary cap. I have never understood signing average players from Australia, if we combined their salaries we could sign a Victor Radley. There are plenty of players in SL who can perform to the level of those you have named. There are also lads in the South Sea Islanders teams that would give us far more bang for our bucks.

I was excited about mago from what I seen from his game time at rabbits knowing he’s still got years ahead of him and coming to a poor comp but was concerned straight away I seen him vs Newcastle. He definitely put on a 10-15 lb in pre season. Ellis is average always has been and it concerns me that rads was talking about keeping him around for a long time in that first fan forum they did last season. I have Byrne havard cooper all ahead. It’s also undoubtedly easier to fit into that saints system compared to ours tho

[Mike]

First of all, I didn’t say anyone did. Obviously, if a player is only here for one season then by definition that cannot be long-term planning. I didn’t suggest that we should throw Junior to the wolves, if you look back I said that we should keep Bateman or, if he is allowed to leave, sign an equivalent replacement. Just where you would get one from I don’t know but I am happy to be advised. By the way I like KPP but if Bateman goes then we lessen our chances of being successful. If you are happy with that fine, I am not.

Having a player for a season can certainly be part of a long term plan (like the one I outlined). Just like maximising value for money can be part of a plan for long term sustainable success.

I'm not bothered either way on Bateman TBH. He's pretty good, but not outstanding and we're paying him a lot. That's the way it goes sometimes, you can't predict the future form of players when you sign them every time. If we feel we can improve or keep the same quality of squad for the next 2-3 years without him then great, if we think we're OK as we are then that's fine by me too.

What do you think, will we improve or keep the same quality without Bateman and without replacing him? By the way, that approach didn’t work in the past, we have lost good players and failed to adequately replace them, hence the reason we are languishing behind Saints.

I'd say, based on the last two seasons we'd be about the same without Bateman with KPP in the second row. With our new options at centre that could well be a stronger team than last year. I don't believe him leaving hurts us much. We obviously differ on that.

Last year I think Bateman has to be in our strongest team, but mainly due to the lack of options at centre. NExt season, not so much, its a straight choice between the attacking threat of KPP and Batemans energy and workrate. However, those aspects of his game haven't been as good IMO as they were before his NRL stint.