Scapegoats through the years

[DaiJones]

Slightly off topic, as I'm not sure that they got direct criticism, but there were players who may undervalued or under-rated by some fans for not being stars or flashy. Ian Potter, maybe Martin Hall, Brian Case-type players.
How would you categorise Colin Whitfield? He was the only player I ever saw being penalised for a voluntary tackle. It was on a match a Bolton, possibly against Batley.

Pretty sure I recall Martin Offiah being penalised for a voluntary tackle when playing for us in a big game (possibly a Challenge Cup semi final or something) but that's the only one I can remember

[Wigan_forever1985]

Powell has managed to reach new heights though. It's not just that every defeat will be blamed on him for some way or another, it's that the dislike of Powell has reached the level of conspiracy for some. His very presence in the team the result of Kris Radlinski not only seemingly forcing every coach to play him against their will, but also to praise him whilst doing so, as every coach has. And of course there's Powell's law, which states that the longer a thread is active on this forum the chances of Sam Powell being blamed for something approaches 100%.

I thought Eagle your thread was very good but i have to say i think it lost its way on the Powell part and its subtle parts of the story being re-written that create this divide

One of Powells biggest problems is he is a hooker - therefore by the very nature of the game he touches the ball more than anyone else, therefore again the amount of times he is interacting with the play is exponentially greater than other players.

Also every play when you are attacking starts at the play of the ball therefore your 9 who will be effecting that 70-80% of the time has the ability to start that well or not - any problem in the very first touch is going to be the most notable as it has the fewest amount of variables involved.

That said i dont think that defeats are blamed on Powell - in fact i would say they rarely if ever are - however when the team are struggling for traction in attack where-as other teams have 9's who can mix it up and run and break it up we dont so again this stands out more in losses than it does for other teams because you see the incredibly limited range Powells attack has. However again its never pinned on him - its simply highlighted as a contributing factor a large one maybe but still a factor in a bigger picture. You can tell this is the case because even in victory the same points are there - its consistent so we arent talking about winning/losing we are talking about improving the team.

To the second point i dont think anyone is suggesting Radders forces coaches to play Powell - or at least this isnt the main theme, but its never been a targetted area of recruitment despite him being a single point of failure in that position, the majority of clubs have backup hookers we've never had anyone who can really challenge Powells position and thats been an issue for many people. Again it comes back to improving the team - a team mus have competition for spots the moment you have a undroppable player (which it does appear Powell is) then you are weaker as a team than if you have healthly competition or options.

And the last point again subtle difference but every coach has praised Sam for the way he trains and the type of person he is, you will notice you never see a comment like "he can change a game for us" or "the skillset he brings" or "he dominated the game". Its always around the none game elements.

Again we go round in circles because people seem to think that there is a campaign against Powell and its simply not true, what there is, are fans who want Wigan to be the best team possible and Powell one of the most average players (not people, players and i struggle to see how anyone can say he's better than average) is in the most important role with the most touches of the ball.

Again i ask this question every time and shockingly no-one ever answers but if Powell leaves Wigan tomorrow what other starting 13 does he realistically get into?

[medlocke]

Powell has managed to reach new heights though. It's not just that every defeat will be blamed on him for some way or another, it's that the dislike of Powell has reached the level of conspiracy for some. His very presence in the team the result of Kris Radlinski not only seemingly forcing every coach to play him against their will, but also to praise him whilst doing so, as every coach has. And of course there's Powell's law, which states that the longer a thread is active on this forum the chances of Sam Powell being blamed for something approaches 100%.

I thought Eagle your thread was very good but i have to say i think it lost its way on the Powell part and its subtle parts of the story being re-written that create this divide

One of Powells biggest problems is he is a hooker - therefore by the very nature of the game he touches the ball more than anyone else, therefore again the amount of times he is interacting with the play is exponentially greater than other players.

Also every play when you are attacking starts at the play of the ball therefore your 9 who will be effecting that 70-80% of the time has the ability to start that well or not - any problem in the very first touch is going to be the most notable as it has the fewest amount of variables involved.

That said i dont think that defeats are blamed on Powell - in fact i would say they rarely if ever are - however when the team are struggling for traction in attack where-as other teams have 9's who can mix it up and run and break it up we dont so again this stands out more in losses than it does for other teams because you see the incredibly limited range Powells attack has. However again its never pinned on him - its simply highlighted as a contributing factor a large one maybe but still a factor in a bigger picture. You can tell this is the case because even in victory the same points are there - its consistent so we arent talking about winning/losing we are talking about improving the team.

To the second point i dont think anyone is suggesting Radders forces coaches to play Powell - or at least this isnt the main theme, but its never been a targetted area of recruitment despite him being a single point of failure in that position, the majority of clubs have backup hookers we've never had anyone who can really challenge Powells position and thats been an issue for many people. Again it comes back to improving the team - a team mus have competition for spots the moment you have a undroppable player (which it does appear Powell is) then you are weaker as a team than if you have healthly competition or options.

And the last point again subtle difference but every coach has praised Sam for the way he trains and the type of person he is, you will notice you never see a comment like "he can change a game for us" or "the skillset he brings" or "he dominated the game". Its always around the none game elements.

Again we go round in circles because people seem to think that there is a campaign against Powell and its simply not true, what there is, are fans who want Wigan to be the best team possible and Powell one of the most average players (not people, players and i struggle to see how anyone can say he's better than average) is in the most important role with the most touches of the ball.

Again i ask this question every time and shockingly no-one ever answers but if Powell leaves Wigan tomorrow what other starting 13 does he realistically get into?

Last years SL Semi?

[archiekeith]

I remember shaun Edwards being booed when I was a kid. Usually for looking for a gap in the line.

Gregory did that to thereby
Closing his three quarter line down ,what we usually called "running" them into touch" effectively closing any gap there might have been,which, by the way could have been exploited by the three quarters if they had parted with the ball instead of traversing the line, so to speak to in search of
a gap which they invariably closed.I think that was the reason for the booing. I didn't boo them I just thought the defence shouldn't jump out of the defencive line but simply watch them/him. Re Jimmy Berts , a Maurice Bamford addition stubbing his boot whilst trying to execute a goal kick,hilarious. I really felt for the lad

[Firestarter]

Slightly off topic, as I'm not sure that they got direct criticism, but there were players who may undervalued or under-rated by some fans for not being stars or flashy. Ian Potter, maybe Martin Hall, Brian Case-type players.
How would you categorise Colin Whitfield? He was the only player I ever saw being penalised for a voluntary tackle. It was on a match a Bolton, possibly against Batley.

i'm not so sure if they were under-rated or not by anyone to be fair (forums like this didnt really exist other than people gassing int pub or at the game ). We had many players like those over the years, Ian Lucas, Ian Gildart, Ged Bryne, Mick Cassidy included, who arent flashy, but you got 100% out of them every week and were invaluable to the team

Brian Case wouldnt take a backwards step, Ian Potter would tackle a sherman tank if it drove at him and come off best. They are the types of player that every team needs, to enable the likes of Gregory, Hanley etc to play like they do.

As for Colin Whitfield, i always remember his kicking but have one memory fo him missing from straight in front and costing us a game, and that seems to have stuck with me for best part of 40 years

Confusing different calibre of players there.

Ian Lucas wasn't underrated! He was a GB international who's career was cut short through injury while in his prime.

Gildart, Cassidy and Case were never underrated as far as I can remember. Case especially is one of those players that I think would do well in the modern era with today's nutrition and training.

Bryne was "ok" as utility back up but that was it. Nobody expected any more of him and therefore were not disappointed.

Whitfield was an oddity! Blew hot and cold if I remember (and in fairness I don't much thesedays!)

Ian Potter can do no wrong by me for that pass he threw to John Fergusson in 1985!

I thought Brian dunne threw that pass to ferguson

[Wigan_forever1985]

That said i dont think that defeats are blamed on Powell - in fact i would say they rarely if ever are - however when the team are struggling for traction in attack where-as other teams have 9's who can mix it up and run and break it up we dont so again this stands out more in losses than it does for other teams because you see the incredibly limited range Powells attack has. However again its never pinned on him - its simply highlighted as a contributing factor a large one maybe but still a factor in a bigger picture. You can tell this is the case because even in victory the same points are there - its consistent so we arent talking about winning/losing we are talking about improving the team.

Last years SL Semi?

I would argue most of the comments - certainly my own and others were more aimed at Matty Peet for playing him completely half baked.

Again this is that fine line of seeing what you want in the comments, running into that game we knew o'neill was playing well and Powell had been out and wouldnt be match fit. So even taking the playing ability out of it the problem was another of the big issues the "Sam Powell always plays"

So for me no - Sam Powell wasnt blamed for that loss - and while i think we win that game with O'Neill - we probably also win it with a match fit Powell

[Wintergreen]

i'm not so sure if they were under-rated or not by anyone to be fair (forums like this didnt really exist other than people gassing int pub or at the game ). We had many players like those over the years, Ian Lucas, Ian Gildart, Ged Bryne, Mick Cassidy included, who arent flashy, but you got 100% out of them every week and were invaluable to the team

Brian Case wouldnt take a backwards step, Ian Potter would tackle a sherman tank if it drove at him and come off best. They are the types of player that every team needs, to enable the likes of Gregory, Hanley etc to play like they do.

As for Colin Whitfield, i always remember his kicking but have one memory fo him missing from straight in front and costing us a game, and that seems to have stuck with me for best part of 40 years

Confusing different calibre of players there.

Ian Lucas wasn't underrated! He was a GB international who's career was cut short through injury while in his prime.

Gildart, Cassidy and Case were never underrated as far as I can remember. Case especially is one of those players that I think would do well in the modern era with today's nutrition and training.

Bryne was "ok" as utility back up but that was it. Nobody expected any more of him and therefore were not disappointed.

Whitfield was an oddity! Blew hot and cold if I remember (and in fairness I don't much thesedays!)

Ian Potter can do no wrong by me for that pass he threw to John Fergusson in 1985!

I thought Brian dunne threw that pass to ferguson

Pretty certain it was Potter. He kinda stutters, hesitates then loops the pass.

[Firestarter]

Confusing different calibre of players there.

Ian Lucas wasn't underrated! He was a GB international who's career was cut short through injury while in his prime.

Gildart, Cassidy and Case were never underrated as far as I can remember. Case especially is one of those players that I think would do well in the modern era with today's nutrition and training.

Bryne was "ok" as utility back up but that was it. Nobody expected any more of him and therefore were not disappointed.

Whitfield was an oddity! Blew hot and cold if I remember (and in fairness I don't much thesedays!)

Ian Potter can do no wrong by me for that pass he threw to John Fergusson in 1985!

I thought Brian dunne threw that pass to ferguson

Pretty certain it was Potter. He kinda stutters, hesitates then loops the pass.

Thinking back( as ive been doing in work last few hours).It was potter i think.Im getting mixed up with the dunne charge were he flicks it back to kenny who loops it to fergie for his first proper jinking run

[josie andrews]

And of course there's Powell's law, which states that the longer a thread is active on this forum the chances of Sam Powell being blamed for something approaches 100%.

Genius!

[josie andrews]

Last years SL Semi?

I would argue most of the comments - certainly my own and others were more aimed at Matty Peet for playing him completely half baked.

Again this is that fine line of seeing what you want in the comments, running into that game we knew o'neill was playing well and Powell had been out and wouldnt be match fit. So even taking the playing ability out of it the problem was another of the big issues the "Sam Powell always plays"

So for me no - Sam Powell wasnt blamed for that loss - and while i think we win that game with O'Neill - we probably also win it with a match fit Powell

I said straight after the semi final that it was Matt Peet’s selection that lost us that game selecting Powell over O’Neill & then we had Bateman’s fit of pique!!