Positions

[Flash]

Just off the top of my head:
Hanley - Top class winger, stand off and loose.
Lockyer - Top class Fullback and stand off.
Tomkins - Top class Fullback and stand off.
Peacock - Top class 2nd row and Prop
Fittler - Top class stand off and loose.
Platt - Top class 2nd row and Prop.
Inglis - Top class Centre and Full back.
Lyon - Top class Centre and stand off.
Barrett - Top class stand off and loose.
Lydon - Top class Centre and Fullback.
Skerrett - Top class Prop and Superman impersonator

I'll leave it there as the list would be enormous if I listed everyone. The point is those (and many more like them) excelled not only at club level but at representative level too. It's not actually that rare and when discussing positional movement at SL club level we're talking several levels below that.

I think many of the players we are watching right now will play more than one position during their careers and to a good standard too. KPP has already played centre, back row and prop and he's only at the start of his career!

[NICKYKISS]

Sam Tomkins himself live on sky sports saying the difference in positions gets overlooked so much.

He then said that you cannot be a top end player in two positions - it’s too specific.

Hopefully people on this forum can listen to that and stop with the ridiculous suggestions.

Most recent ones I’ve seen

Miski to Centre
King to second row
Wardle to second row
French to loose forward
Powell to loose forward
O’Neil to loose forward

I get certain players have done it but it’s a rarity to do it properly and given we want and should be challenging for all honours it has to be put to bed.

I’m not having a pop but I genuinely admire your passion for players not being allowed to move positions. I see somebody suggest a move for a player nowadays and straight away I think ‘Nathan won’t like that’

The history of the game is littered with people moving positions and Tomkins himself is a player to have done it. You’re absolutely correct when you say a suggestion like French to 13 is crazy and ones like Wardle to second row/Miski to centre don’t have much merit for me but players switching positions and being versatile isn’t automatically a no no. It never has been and never will be.

I suggested one on your list myself, in that next season Brad O’Neill could start games at 9, Leeming comes on and then after a rest, O’Neill comes back on and gives Smithies a breather at 13, before Smithies comes on for Leeming later on and O’Neill goes back to 9. Plenty of teams use a rotation like that and Brad O’Neill has a background in the academy of doing exactly that and played as much loose forward, as he did hooker.

It just can’t be as black and white as ‘you have one position’ as a player throughout your career and that’s that. Players bodies change, their attributes change and the game and it’s tactics change. Look at KPP last night! He was outstanding and helped turn the game and he wasn’t playing in the second row, which we would consider to be his position wouldn’t we?!

Change isn’t always bad! (Although French at 13 would challenge me nearly as much as I suspect it would you).

[ian.birchall]

Flash definitely wins the argument hands down. Kelvin Skerret, prop and superman impersonator. Game over.

[nathan_rugby]

Sam Tomkins himself live on sky sports saying the difference in positions gets overlooked so much.

He then said that you cannot be a top end player in two positions - it’s too specific.

Hopefully people on this forum can listen to that and stop with the ridiculous suggestions.

Most recent ones I’ve seen

Miski to Centre
King to second row
Wardle to second row
French to loose forward
Powell to loose forward
O’Neil to loose forward

I get certain players have done it but it’s a rarity to do it properly and given we want and should be challenging for all honours it has to be put to bed.

I’m not having a pop but I genuinely admire your passion for players not being allowed to move positions. I see somebody suggest a move for a player nowadays and straight away I think ‘Nathan won’t like that’

The history of the game is littered with people moving positions and Tomkins himself is a player to have done it. You’re absolutely correct when you say a suggestion like French to 13 is crazy and ones like Wardle to second row/Miski to centre don’t have much merit for me but players switching positions and being versatile isn’t automatically a no no. It never has been and never will be.

I suggested one on your list myself, in that next season Brad O’Neill could start games at 9, Leeming comes on and then after a rest, O’Neill comes back on and gives Smithies a breather at 13, before Smithies comes on for Leeming later on and O’Neill goes back to 9. Plenty of teams use a rotation like that and Brad O’Neill has a background in the academy of doing exactly that and played as much loose forward, as he did hooker.

It just can’t be as black and white as ‘you have one position’ as a player throughout your career and that’s that. Players bodies change, their attributes change and the game and it’s tactics change. Look at KPP last night! He was outstanding and helped turn the game and he wasn’t playing in the second row, which we would consider to be his position wouldn’t we?!

Change isn’t always bad! (Although French at 13 would challenge me nearly as much as I suspect it would you).

Agree with this Niki which is why I didn’t list every single suggestion we have had / every positional change we have used.

[Gerrumonside]

Flash definitely wins the argument hands down. Kelvin Skerret, prop and superman impersonator. Game over.

Everyone loves low flying Skerretts!

[EagleEyePie]

I’m not having a pop but I genuinely admire your passion for players not being allowed to move positions. I see somebody suggest a move for a player nowadays and straight away I think ‘Nathan won’t like that’

The history of the game is littered with people moving positions and Tomkins himself is a player to have done it. You’re absolutely correct when you say a suggestion like French to 13 is crazy and ones like Wardle to second row/Miski to centre don’t have much merit for me but players switching positions and being versatile isn’t automatically a no no. It never has been and never will be.

I suggested one on your list myself, in that next season Brad O’Neill could start games at 9, Leeming comes on and then after a rest, O’Neill comes back on and gives Smithies a breather at 13, before Smithies comes on for Leeming later on and O’Neill goes back to 9. Plenty of teams use a rotation like that and Brad O’Neill has a background in the academy of doing exactly that and played as much loose forward, as he did hooker.

It just can’t be as black and white as ‘you have one position’ as a player throughout your career and that’s that. Players bodies change, their attributes change and the game and it’s tactics change. Look at KPP last night! He was outstanding and helped turn the game and he wasn’t playing in the second row, which we would consider to be his position wouldn’t we?!

Change isn’t always bad! (Although French at 13 would challenge me nearly as much as I suspect it would you).

I think this pretty much says it all. I can understand why Tomkins made the comment in terms of positions being specialised but I'm not sure the evidence actually backs up what he's saying. If you look at outside backs in Australia so many of them have played in multiple positions across the backline throughout their career and seem equally comfortable in at least two of them.

Maybe it depends on his definition of 'top end' player, but if you stuck to the 'each position is too specialised' idea you'd soon struggle to build a suitable squad of players. Versatility is essential at times. It's also really useful for younger players too as it can get them in the first team quicker and allow them to develop their game.

Eckersley is an example. He's an outstanding centre but next year we'll presumably have Keighran and Wardle in the centres. I doubt any coach would have an issue with giving him games on the wing if opportunity arises. Thinking back to several years ago Darrell Goulding was a promising centre who only reached his peak in that position having played a couple of years as a winger.

Jonny Lomax played centre and wing for Saints in his early years and it did him no harm. Jamie Peacock was playing second row and then became the best prop for his country.

I guess it's rare for someone to be considered the very best at say loose forward and also the very best at stand off. To some extent it's just better for team cohesion that your best player sticks to one position and you build a team around them.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

The players Flash listed were all ‘Top End’ players in their original position, so for them to transition to another position is far easier! The quality they all had made them world class, it’s just easier for them!

The players that some on here are suggesting a change of position for are nowhere near ‘Top End’ in their preferred position that they have been playing for all their careers. So for them to transition to a new position would be far more difficult, however there would be exceptions to the rule but very few!

Comparing players like Hanley to Powell etc. Hanley could play anywhere and make a difference he was that good! Powell is very limited as a stand off originally and then as Hooker! He has already tried a new position and being honest is not good enough in either position! Because he just doesn’t have the ability!

That’s the difference! A change of position is far easier when you have more ability!

[pedro]

The players Flash listed were all ‘Top End’ players in their original position, so for them to transition to another position is far easier! The quality they all had made them world class, it’s just easier for them!

The players that some on here are suggesting a change of position for are nowhere near ‘Top End’ in their preferred position that they have been playing for all their careers. So for them to transition to a new position would be far more difficult, however there would be exceptions to the rule but very few!

Comparing players like Hanley to Powell etc. Hanley could play anywhere and make a difference he was that good! Powell is very limited as a stand off originally and then as Hooker! He has already tried a new position and being honest is not good enough in either position! Because he just doesn’t have the ability!

That’s the difference! A change of position is far easier when you have more ability!

plus the games moved on from most of them

[EagleEyePie]

The players Flash listed were all ‘Top End’ players in their original position, so for them to transition to another position is far easier! The quality they all had made them world class, it’s just easier for them!

The players that some on here are suggesting a change of position for are nowhere near ‘Top End’ in their preferred position that they have been playing for all their careers. So for them to transition to a new position would be far more difficult, however there would be exceptions to the rule but very few!

Comparing players like Hanley to Powell etc. Hanley could play anywhere and make a difference he was that good! Powell is very limited as a stand off originally and then as Hooker! He has already tried a new position and being honest is not good enough in either position! Because he just doesn’t have the ability!

That’s the difference! A change of position is far easier when you have more ability!

I'm not sure that last sentence is necessarily true either though. Isn't it all relative to someone's ability as a whole? I don't think a Championship standard stand off would be any less likely to be able to adapt to being a Championship standard fullback.

Surely what matters most in terms of any player being able to adapt to a different position is their abilities and physical attributes that are transferrable to different positions.

Tomkins is a quality player but I don't think he'd be more capable of playing at centre than Abbas Miski would (one of the suggested positional changes) purely because he's a much more talented player.

Second row forwards moving to prop happens a lot. Outside backs being able to play multiple positions in the backline is also pretty common regardless of the level they are playing at.

[Flash]

The players Flash listed were all ‘Top End’ players in their original position, so for them to transition to another position is far easier! The quality they all had made them world class, it’s just easier for them!

The players that some on here are suggesting a change of position for are nowhere near ‘Top End’ in their preferred position that they have been playing for all their careers. So for them to transition to a new position would be far more difficult, however there would be exceptions to the rule but very few!

Comparing players like Hanley to Powell etc. Hanley could play anywhere and make a difference he was that good! Powell is very limited as a stand off originally and then as Hooker! He has already tried a new position and being honest is not good enough in either position! Because he just doesn’t have the ability!

That’s the difference! A change of position is far easier when you have more ability!

I deliberately chose players who had excelled in multiple positions internationally to show it's possible even at the highest level. I then said that superleague is several levels below this. If you want examples of players who have changed positions at SL level and who were good SL level players that list would be equally long:

Kallum Watkins - SL centre and back rower.
Johnny Lomax - SL fullback and Half (also played both at international level)
Beven French - SL wing and Fullback
Jack Welsby - SL fullback and stand off.
Sam Tomkins - SL fullback and stand off (also played internationally in both positions)
KPP - SL back rower and centre and last night's MOM.
George Williams - SL hooker and half
Arthur Morgue - SL stand off, scrum half and Fullback

I could go on as I've barely scratched the surface there. I could also show examples from recent history, such as Ben Westwood - SL centre and back rower or Trent Barrett - SL and NRL stand off and loose etc to illustrate how this has always been the case.

The bottom line is you don't have to be Ellery Hanley to prosper in multiple positions. It merely dictates which level you can do this at. At SL level, all of the above and many more beside, fulfil those multiple roles to a good standard.