Byrne

[Blackpool_Pie]

I think sometimes it's a bit of a mindset thing as well. I remember Ben Flower. Even watching him warm up he was explosive and attacked the pads. He wasn't the biggest for a prop but his aggression and mindset was I'm going to make as many meters as I can. He was almost the same type of prop to Byrne. Not flashy. Plays the game quite simple. I don't remember him throwing out many offloads or making breaks but he dominated the contact area and got a quicker ptb most times. Byrne is just far too passive and doesn't use his size in either attack or defence

[Charriots Offiah]

I think sometimes it's a bit of a mindset thing as well. I remember Ben Flower. Even watching him warm up he was explosive and attacked the pads. He wasn't the biggest for a prop but his aggression and mindset was I'm going to make as many meters as I can. He was almost the same type of prop to Byrne. Not flashy. Plays the game quite simple. I don't remember him throwing out many offloads or making breaks but he dominated the contact area and got a quicker ptb most times. Byrne is just far too passive and doesn't use his size in either attack or defence

That is fair. I am convinced that Byrne is a good player we just need to improve him.

[fozzieskem]

The warm up to me yesterday mirrored the game no get up and go about them at all

[Wiganer Ted]

Byrne is a starting prop every week when we can all see this past few weeks his game has dropped off. It was only a couple of games ago when he came back on for his second stint and was great. Perhaps time to bench him and play, say, Mago to start with Ellis.

Trouble is of our three starting props Cooper, Ellis and Havard two of them are injured. Maybe MP should rotate his other props to start with Ellis. Byrne is young and has talent. The coaching staff have to know how to get the best out of Liam and given time and flexibility he will improve and be a regular in the 17 for years to come.

[mickali1]

Byrne is a starting prop every week when we can all see this past few weeks his game has dropped off. It was only a couple of games ago when he came back on for his second stint and was great. Perhaps time to bench him and play, say, Mago to start with Ellis.

Trouble is of our three starting props Cooper, Ellis and Havard two of them are injured. Maybe MP should rotate his other props to start with Ellis. Byrne is young and has talent. The coaching staff have to know how to get the best out of Liam and given time and flexibility he will improve and be a regular in the 17 for years to come.

Well you're half right.

[Flash]

I think sometimes it's a bit of a mindset thing as well. I remember Ben Flower. Even watching him warm up he was explosive and attacked the pads. He wasn't the biggest for a prop but his aggression and mindset was I'm going to make as many meters as I can. He was almost the same type of prop to Byrne. Not flashy. Plays the game quite simple. I don't remember him throwing out many offloads or making breaks but he dominated the contact area and got a quicker ptb most times. Byrne is just far too passive and doesn't use his size in either attack or defence

That is fair. I am convinced that Byrne is a good player we just need to improve him.

Very much so BP. The phrase I used on the other forum was along the lines of "the problem seems to be between his ears" which is pretty much what you're saying here. I do feel there's an element of burn out. That's probably a strange phrase to use for such a young player but he's been a mainstay of our pack for a number of years now and hasn't suffered the injuries or suspensions that others have that would give that natural break. Maybe he should have been spelled more or, alternatively, need spelling more, or even resting completely, now.

[widdenoldboy]

I don't like seeing a youngster who works pretty hard every week, whether currently very effectively or not, get this sort of criticism. I think he needs a rest and some specialised coaching, perhaps by Waney himself, who was also a prop if I remember correctly (an attempt at humour). I recall John Monie saying in his book 'The Iceman' that Waney needed to try a bit harder, or wasn't hungry enough, or something along those lines. Whether that was before he won MOTM in the World Club Challenge i can't remember. Any road up, lets look for a way to boost young Liam up a bit before we write him off. Liverpool kept a close eye on the young, talented Steven Gerrard for quite a while and didn't overplay him whilst he grew, filled out and built up his strength and stamina. Liam Byrne's, of necessity, done quite a few of the hardest yards over the past year or two for a young lad, let's not give up on him. Compared to him, Patrick Mago should wake up blushing every morning.

Great post, the pack is a unit, it suceeds as a unit or fails as a unit.....Byrne needs some support but we have injuries to our best props and our 2nd row is too small and it shows when they are exposed like this. And to answer your question, Waney was MotM in WCC before Monie arrived - so lets blame JM for his drop in form

[nathan_rugby]

I don't like seeing a youngster who works pretty hard every week, whether currently very effectively or not, get this sort of criticism. I think he needs a rest and some specialised coaching, perhaps by Waney himself, who was also a prop if I remember correctly (an attempt at humour). I recall John Monie saying in his book 'The Iceman' that Waney needed to try a bit harder, or wasn't hungry enough, or something along those lines. Whether that was before he won MOTM in the World Club Challenge i can't remember. Any road up, lets look for a way to boost young Liam up a bit before we write him off. Liverpool kept a close eye on the young, talented Steven Gerrard for quite a while and didn't overplay him whilst he grew, filled out and built up his strength and stamina. Liam Byrne's, of necessity, done quite a few of the hardest yards over the past year or two for a young lad, let's not give up on him. Compared to him, Patrick Mago should wake up blushing every morning.

Great post, the pack is a unit, it suceeds as a unit or fails as a unit.....Byrne needs some support but we have injuries to our best props and our 2nd row is too small and it shows when they are exposed like this. And to answer your question, Waney was MotM in WCC before Monie arrived - so lets blame JM for his drop in form

How do you explain good performances from players like Havard and Smithies or KPP last week then?

I appreciate the pack is struggling, injuries are killing us and we have some off form players, but it’s clear to see that players like Singleton, Byrne, Mago aren’t doing enough.

[widdenoldboy]

I don't like seeing a youngster who works pretty hard every week, whether currently very effectively or not, get this sort of criticism. I think he needs a rest and some specialised coaching, perhaps by Waney himself, who was also a prop if I remember correctly (an attempt at humour). I recall John Monie saying in his book 'The Iceman' that Waney needed to try a bit harder, or wasn't hungry enough, or something along those lines. Whether that was before he won MOTM in the World Club Challenge i can't remember. Any road up, lets look for a way to boost young Liam up a bit before we write him off. Liverpool kept a close eye on the young, talented Steven Gerrard for quite a while and didn't overplay him whilst he grew, filled out and built up his strength and stamina. Liam Byrne's, of necessity, done quite a few of the hardest yards over the past year or two for a young lad, let's not give up on him. Compared to him, Patrick Mago should wake up blushing every morning.

Great post, the pack is a unit, it suceeds as a unit or fails as a unit.....Byrne needs some support but we have injuries to our best props and our 2nd row is too small and it shows when they are exposed like this. And to answer your question, Waney was MotM in WCC before Monie arrived - so lets blame JM for his drop in form

How do you explain good performances from players like Havard and Smithies or KPP last week then?

I appreciate the pack is struggling, injuries are killing us and we have some off form players, but it’s clear to see that players like Singleton, Byrne, Mago aren’t doing enough.

Yeh, they do need to step up or be dropped for a reserve/Academy prospect - agree with that. I don't see that individuals showing up well as contradictory with the "pack unit" idea, but I think Byrne has looked good at times but, sure those 3 could be replaced to enable a better unit and get more from Faz and the halfs.

[cherry toffee]

No-one is disagreeing with you Nathan, this thread is about Byrne not producing. The question is what to do about it , some want him sent on his way,others want him taking out of the team for a spell . I think he’s physically got the tools for the job he just needs the attitude of an Ollie Partington, maybe the club should consider a sports psychologist to help improve him, someone above mentioned the whole team looks flat on occasions so maybe he could talk to all the players, I’m no expert but it just seems to be a mental attitude