Consistency of officiating

[catman]

Most ironic thing about this debate is that I have not seen a really bad tackle this year. Thirty years ago you had the likes of Les Boyd, Kelvin Skerrett and Dean Sampson dealing out the swinging arm jaw-breakers which really could do some damage if they connected. What we have seen this season is a number of occasions where young men playing a high speed contact sport have got their their tackling technique wrong and made contact with the head usually because the ball carrier was moving quickly, changing direction or ducking down. I honestly can’t think of a deliberate high tackle where the defender has lined the ball carrier up and pulled the trigger, the game is simply too fast to do this now.
The worst thing is that the refs seem to react to these accidental high tackles in a completely random manner. Will it be play on, just a penalty, a sin bin or a dismissal no-one can tell. Will the video ref get involved? Who knows. However what is evident is that these decisions are determining the results of games and this is causing frustration amongst supporters and ruining the image of our sport.

[Mike]

Whether deliberate or not, they all increase risk of brain injury symptoms in later life. Its going to be tough to change techniques to reduce head impacts, but you've got to start somewhere. You're not going to just fix it overnight.

[catman]

By the time this happens our game will be ruined. Matches are not decided by how good the two teams are but by what colour card the ref pulls from his pocket.

[Mike]

By the time this happens our game will be ruined. Matches are not decided by how good the two teams are but by what colour card the ref pulls from his pocket.

I would hope things will improve as the year goes on.

[Ipinwigan]

One of the main problems with the current situation and the video ref at every game, is that players who think there is something dodgy in a tackle on them, will stay down so the video ref can check what has happened.
Perhaps if the player stays down then an automatic HIA should be incurred, it might reduce the likelihood of them staying down.

[fozzie58]

Most ironic thing about this debate is that I have not seen a really bad tackle this year. Thirty years ago you had the likes of Les Boyd, Kelvin Skerrett and Dean Sampson dealing out the swinging arm jaw-breakers which really could do some damage if they connected. What we have seen this season is a number of occasions where young men playing a high speed contact sport have got their their tackling technique wrong and made contact with the head usually because the ball carrier was moving quickly, changing direction or ducking down. I honestly can’t think of a deliberate high tackle where the defender has lined the ball carrier up and pulled the trigger, the game is simply too fast to do this now.
The worst thing is that the refs seem to react to these accidental high tackles in a completely random manner. Will it be play on, just a penalty, a sin bin or a dismissal no-one can tell. Will the video ref get involved? Who knows. However what is evident is that these decisions are determining the results of games and this is causing frustration amongst supporters and ruining the image of our sport.

You simply can't compare the game from 30 years ago though, look at them you really can't,in general tell a prop apart from a winger it has changed so much the game, for the better well that's subjective for sure, chalk and cheese the game now.

[Wigan_forever1985]

Thing is this is a 4 page thread of inconsistent reffing that seems to centre around the red card for Byrne costing us the match.

I think it was a red in the modern interpretation but also i see no-one mention Bevans try which was incredibly dubious and our only points in the game. So you have to take the bad with the good in terms of reffing.

I think for me the issue is the pace of the players now - we no longer have any real distinction between builds of players i reckon there are props playing today who could outrun most wingers from 20 years ago and a lot of the wingers/centres are bigger than some who used to play 2nd row, Bradford i would say were the architect of this change.

As such its getting easier for people to get things wrong and for the impact to start somewhere and end up somewhere it shouldnt.

If the RFL genuinely want reduce injury my view is they need to address the closing speed of the players on impact - a reduction of the 10m rule back to 5m could help this wont solve it but could be one way of helping. Rugby League needs to understand though that the gladiatorial harshness was and is its main selling point.

[Fan4Fifty]

There are a lot of thoughtful comments in this thread so here are a few (hopefully thoughtful) reflections of my own:

• The thread is about 'consistency of officiating'. I've been watching the game for well over 60 years and inconsistency has always been an issue and I guess always will be - from Eric Clay, to Billy Thompson to John Holdsworth to name but a few, right through to today's refs, I've ranted at officials during games but watching them back, find that they are mostly correct

• In some respects the tackle issue is very simple - don't tackle around the head! Interpretation will always come into play. The game is fast and tough and errors will occur by players and officials

• We, as fans, need to embrace what the RFL is doing (and just hope that it does it well) as in the litigious world that we live in there simply isn't an option to do nothing. That route would end the game as we know it.

• As an example of how players can learn to adapt, look at how very few instances we see now of field kickers being flattened by late tackles though it used to be commonplace. The game can, and will, adapt.

• The disciplinary system is too complicated. With grades A-F and levels within the grades (higher-end, lower-end etc) it's an impenetrable system to the average fan (me!). Should more emphasis be given to the 'live' decision where the official is aware of the conditions, the 'spirit' in which the game is being played, the level of on-field aggravation that is taking place etc, with the disciplinary system reserved for more extreme incidents?

• Like everyone else I hate games being 'decided' by poor refereeing decisions (on field and video). However, most games are decided by poor player decisions (aka Liam Byrne's poor tackle technique on one occasion.

• I'm more bothered by the constant player arm-waving that goes on now after virtually every tackle. This, and the potential for faking injury by players staying down after a tackle, is, at its worst, blatant cheating and makes consistent refereeing more difficult

• I wish it were possible to referee 'intent' (which it isn't) as IMHO there was far more intent to injure in Matty Lee's attack on Thompson than in either of the Dupree or Byrne tackles. If video refs are to be involved in 'on-field' decisions this should have been picked up - an area where consistency should be easier given the greater time available to them

All of that said, and despite some of the frustrations, I've enjoyed most of the games that I've seen this season so far. And I'd much prefer to see players end their careers with all of their faculties intact than them, and their families, suffer (thankfully rare) degenerative conditions long after the end of their playing careers.

[Big Steve]

There are a lot of thoughtful comments in this thread so here are a few (hopefully thoughtful) reflections of my own:

• The thread is about 'consistency of officiating'. I've been watching the game for well over 60 years and inconsistency has always been an issue and I guess always will be - from Eric Clay, to Billy Thompson to John Holdsworth to name but a few, right through to today's refs, I've ranted at officials during games but watching them back, find that they are mostly correct

• In some respects the tackle issue is very simple - don't tackle around the head! Interpretation will always come into play. The game is fast and tough and errors will occur by players and officials

• We, as fans, need to embrace what the RFL is doing (and just hope that it does it well) as in the litigious world that we live in there simply isn't an option to do nothing. That route would end the game as we know it.

• As an example of how players can learn to adapt, look at how very few instances we see now of field kickers being flattened by late tackles though it used to be commonplace. The game can, and will, adapt.

• The disciplinary system is too complicated. With grades A-F and levels within the grades (higher-end, lower-end etc) it's an impenetrable system to the average fan (me!). Should more emphasis be given to the 'live' decision where the official is aware of the conditions, the 'spirit' in which the game is being played, the level of on-field aggravation that is taking place etc, with the disciplinary system reserved for more extreme incidents?

• Like everyone else I hate games being 'decided' by poor refereeing decisions (on field and video). However, most games are decided by poor player decisions (aka Liam Byrne's poor tackle technique on one occasion.

• I'm more bothered by the constant player arm-waving that goes on now after virtually every tackle. This, and the potential for faking injury by players staying down after a tackle, is, at its worst, blatant cheating and makes consistent refereeing more difficult

• I wish it were possible to referee 'intent' (which it isn't) as IMHO there was far more intent to injure in Matty Lee's attack on Thompson than in either of the Dupree or Byrne tackles. If video refs are to be involved in 'on-field' decisions this should have been picked up - an area where consistency should be easier given the greater time available to them

All of that said, and despite some of the frustrations, I've enjoyed most of the games that I've seen this season so far. And I'd much prefer to see players end their careers with all of their faculties intact than them, and their families, suffer (thankfully rare) degenerative conditions long after the end of their playing careers.

Pretty much agree with the above. It's hard not to get caught up with the emotion especially after a big game like GF, but first and foremost the reason we lost was all the penalties and 6 agains we gave away, stopping us building any momentum.

Simplifying the grading and punishments are the areas that need to be improved and will reduce the frustration felt by fans. Where a player makes a genuine effort to tackle, wrap arms but still makes head contact, such as Liam did, then it should be punished, otherwise players technique will never change, but a 4-6 game ban is plain wrong. These length of bans should be for serious foul play - such as the Hull forward in R1 where he made a great tackle, but followed it with a swinging arm to the head.

[Firestarter]

I agree that there have been a ridiculous amount of bad decisions .im shocked that nothing else has been mentioned about the trip on field.