Myth of young players

[standishcat]

We could have done with both of these players this season.

But we didn't know we'd need them! Ian Millward didn't have a crystal ball, just as Brian Noble doesn't. I didn't think we'd be bottom of the table 10 games into the season, but we are. Fair enough, you could say "keep them just in case" but if I was Aspy or Wild, I wouldn't wanna sit on the sidelines, waiting for someone to get injured.

[chrisJJ]

martin aspinwall and david hodgson aren't doing so bad along with stephen wild and errrr, LUKE ROBINSON

[bertina]

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing?
Some people on this site have very short memories.
Aspinwall, Hodgson, and especially Wild were consistently getting loads of stick on this message board when they were playing for us. And even did Luke Robinson when he had to step up to first choice scrum half when Lammy was injured.
It's very easy to start finding fault after the event.

[ragman]

bertina posted:
Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing?
Some people on this site have very short memories.
Aspinwall, Hodgson, and especially Wild were consistently getting loads of stick on this message board when they were playing for us. And even did Luke Robinson when he had to step up to first choice scrum half when Lammy was injured.
It's very easy to start finding fault after the event.

Quite right. We released Wild, Aspinwall and Hodgson because they are rubbish. If you keep the likes of them on the books, and more to the point keep them on the salary roll, you have to then release more of the younger players coming through, because you can't afford to keep them. It becomes a vicious circle.

My point was that of all the players that we have had to release over the years, very few have come back to bite us, and very few would I want back even now, including those mentioned.

Even Paul Johnson, who I rate as a strong dependable player when fit, has a terrible injury record. Sure, I'd prefer him to Kevin Brown in the centre,( I'd rather have Janet Brown for that matter)but he's no good as a player when he's on the physio's couch for half a season.

[DaveO]

ragman posted:
I take issue with the notion that seems to be prevalent on this forum that Wigan has a long history of releasing young players who later come back to haunt us.

Wigan have always released players. Names like Pendlebury, Stephenson, Blakely, Myres, Jon Clarke, Preston, Barrow, Murdoch even Shaun Wayne our outstanding youth coach were allowed to ply their trade elsewhere when deemed surplus to requirements here. Some did well, others didn't.

This is when I see posts from people bemoaning the loss of a player I smile because it is always with hindsight that another thread is started about why didn't we keep this or that player.

Seriously though, whilst Briscoe and Robinson are decent players, I honestly don't think that they're of the standard that we want if we want to be anything like a force in the game again.For every Briscoe there's a Bibey, for every Robinson there's a Cardiss or a Smyth.

We've got it right far,far more often than we've got it wrong

I agree and just because DV is poor doesn't mean Hodgson is the answer, like wise Robinson for Moran.

Dave

[El Rifle]

I always wondered why Lee Gilmour was let go - he was exceptional in his early days and would be a welcome addition to any squad at the moment - he can play in a lot of positions

[HindleyGreen28]

Gilmour started really well for us, but then really went off the boil- seemed to lose confidence for a season or two, so we let him go.
He's done well now and fair play to him... its one of those calls that has to be made, you've got to make it and then look at what you actually have, rather than what you've lost.

[thegimble]

All clubs do this.

Did Cas or Leigh let Jordan James go and now look at him a decent SL player.

[robjoenz]

standishcat posted:

We could have done with both of these players this season.

But we didn't know we'd need them! Ian Millward didn't have a crystal ball, just as Brian Noble doesn't. I didn't think we'd be bottom of the table 10 games into the season, but we are. Fair enough, you could say "keep them just in case" but if I was Aspy or Wild, I wouldn't wanna sit on the sidelines, waiting for someone to get injured.

You're quite right, no-one can see into the future and hindsight is a wonderful thing and I wouldn't mind if we'd replaced a player for another player with an equal combined rating of quality and life expectancy.

If we are to believe what Lindsay says (i.e. dismiss rumour) we let Robinson go due to salary cap restrictions, obviously he had plans to sign Moran already so we exchanged a promising youngster for a talented but much older scrum half from London. Even at the time I was one of the few saying we should have kept Robinson.

We let Aspinwall go last season and anyone who pays any attention on the field would know he is a better tackler and has a much higher workrate than Vaealiki. We offloaded what one may argue is a player not good enough for Wigan and kept one that some argue is the worst player to have pulled on the cherry and white. You could compare it as a straight in-out with Hodgeson, we got rid of Hodgy because he was slow to regain form due to an achilles injury then did the same again!

Sean Briscoe wanted to stay at Wigan from what I can gather and then due to Lindsay messing him about saying we had no space under the cap and then offering him a one year deal he decided to leave.

You look at Craig Smith as well. We lost him, Pongia and O'Conner from the props that season and replaced them with Seuseu having already suffered a prop injury crisis. You think the chairman would have highlighted this area as a weakness wouldn't you! Alas no.

So whilst for some players it seemed like the best thing to do at the time for quite a few it was, in my opinion, not the best thing to do and hindsight backs me up!

[DaveO]

robjoenz posted:
You're quite right, no-one can see into the future and hindsight is a wonderful thing and I wouldn't mind if we'd replaced a player for another player with an equal combined rating of quality and life expectancy.

If we are to believe what Lindsay says (i.e. dismiss rumour) we let Robinson go due to salary cap restrictions, obviously he had plans to sign Moran already so we exchanged a promising youngster for a talented but much older scrum half from London. Even at the time I was one of the few saying we should have kept Robinson.

Which on the evidence you had before back then was in my opinion, wrong. You wanted to keep a young unproven player who played his best for Wigan as an impact hooker (not as a scrum half) as our main scrum half. Wigan didn't have the luxury to wait and see if he was the answer at scrum half as he simply wasn't ready, so Wigan had to opt for an experienced replacement for Lam.

The fact Robinson two seasons on is looking decent (but still not necessarily what we need) and Moran has not done well at Wigan doesn't mean the course of action taken by the club in signing an experienced scrum half to replace Lam was wrong.

We let Aspinwall go last season and anyone who pays any attention on the field would know he is a better tackler and has a much higher work rate than Vaealiki.

Aspinwll is still poor regardless of how bad DV is. Aspinwall is no loss to Wigan and would by now be keeping another 20/20 spot and he isn't worth it.

We offloaded what one may argue is a player not good enough for Wigan and kept one that some argue is the worst player to have pulled on the cherry and white.

Hindsight strikes again.

You could compare it as a straight in-out with Hodgeson, we got rid of Hodgy because he was slow to regain form due to an achilles injury then did the same again!

Hodgson I agree was unlucky to be moved on but at the time few were bothered hence the nickname "Dodgy Hodgy" on the message boards.

Sean Briscoe wanted to stay at Wigan from what I can gather and then due to Lindsay messing him about saying we had no space under the cap and then offering him a one year deal he decided to leave.

It was still his decisions to go and had he stayed he would have had to wait for his chances until this season to become 1st choice full back and would already have Ashton breathing down his neck. Despite the loss of Briscoe, has it affected the club? He would have been another 20/20 player don't forget.

You look at Craig Smith as well. We lost him, Pongia and O'Conner from the props that season and replaced them with Seuseu having already suffered a prop injury crisis. You think the chairman would have highlighted this area as a weakness wouldn't you! Alas no.

Pongia had gone before the end of the season and was a temporary signing anyway. Seu Seu was a direct replacement for Smith and we had Davico lined up. O'Connor was at the end of his SL career. We all know what went wrong with Davico but again at the end of the season two out and two in hardly seems bad given the reputations of the incoming players. It is only with Hindsight (again) that the decisions look poor.

So whilst for some players it seemed like the best thing to do at the time for quite a few it was, in my opinion, not the best thing to do and hindsight backs me up!

It does just the opposite in my opinion. Of all the players you mention only the decision with Hodgson is questionable if you take into consideration the circumstances at the time and the standard of the players (NRL reputation or what we had seen with Robinson & Aspwinall) at the time.

Dave