Re: Who is the best tackler

[Likely_Lad]

DaveO posted:

cpwigan posted:
Have to support Flash on this occasion. Danny Orr would be considered a poor defender professionally.

I almost stopped reading as soon as I read the above nonsense. Danny Orr a poor defender? Rubbish!

That does not mean he cannot tackle. We know he can tackle. However, Danny can only tackle players by going low. hereby, he gives opponens he opportunity to offload and hecan be bumped off which does happen v the very best runners.

That is a rather sweeping generlisation. I don't see players offloading regularly when he has put in a hit. What about that one on Coley?

Professionally and Bell/Foley even preach this to the young scholarship kids. The perfect tackle is the ball and all 1 v 1 tackle.

Danny Orr would be a poor defender if he tried this. Brown tries it and he gets swatted off like a fly.

Orr plays to his strengths and is an effective defender as a result of being a good tackler.

Orr puts players on their backsides more often than not and players rarely offload from that position. He hits hard, low and has then over quickly.

Players tend to offload most often when stood up in the tackle. This is only possible if the player making the tackle has stood the player up but has not managed to cover the ball (like Brown does).

So, we are looking for somebody who can hit above the ball, around the shoulders, keeping their own head very tight to the opponent and then importantly winning the contact by putting the ball carrier on his back rather than his hands / knees (which danny often does)

If you want to tackle like this you need to have perfect technquqie and if you don't, despite what Cullen says you will get penalised or you will not succeed in covering the ball or putting the player down.

Teams were off loading for fun against us earlier in the season as our players were not big enojgh or strong enough to execute this type of tackle but still went for it.

Lockers isn't the biggest forward on the pitch so if he wants to do this he needs to pick who he is going to try this against or he won't be able to make it work against the bigger players.

Dave

So how come he makes it work against the bigger players week in week out then?

Re Danny Orr, he has superb technique for his size and is very good in midfield defence. However, to me, he always looks vulnerable defending his own line when the bigger guys are running at him. I know this is only to be expected but it surely takes him out of the equation for 'best defender'.

[cpwigan]

Dave you need o read things in context. I qualified that statement re Danny. However, no matter what you say or what I think, Danny very often has to use the momentum of the runner to bring him down 1 v 1. He does so brilliantly. Nevertheless, passive tackling is frowned upon professionally. Sorry but it is.

Being small he does v certain players get underneath them and in the midriff very well.

Personally, I think players should tackle according to their stature. However, professionally, the experts seem to differ and view everybody as the same and fear offloads like the plague. For example, Danny would struggle versus Ali Lauittiti or Sonny Bill etc to stop hem offloading.

Again personally. I would take Danny Orrs tackling technique over what players are being coached. I am sick of seeing Thomas Coyle bounced off because he hits high as instructed. I even think young players should be taught techniques like the cumberland throw if they are small.

I have stated what I think the best tackle technique is and I believe men of Gillmeisters stature are always the best tacklers. However, the professionals in SL seem to differ and my opinion is just that.

[FEILDEN FOR KEEPERS]

i respect what ur saying but on the whole if you watch at either ammy or pro stand offs and scrum halves have to use the players momentum to bring them down .that is why i say dannys defence as a stand off is as good as youll get and to be fair he shouldnt really making as many tackles as he does but he prefers to be a busy stand off and is always in the thick of it , on the other side of the coin he could never take a tackle and hardly make one and be smart like edwards did he had an average defence but was far superior in offence do u agree

[FEILDEN FOR KEEPERS]

ive watched a few 21s games this year and one person inparticular who will under the right coaching make the step up and become a great tackler is john walker hes defence is great he just goes for the big hit a little to often and needs consistency with his work rate but is one for the future at wigan

[cpwigan]

Fielden I agree with you. I am not convinced by what he professionals do in his country sometimes. I was just pointing it out. Joey Johns is the ideal halfback defender IMO but he has a freakish build. The problem is that halfbacks are very often exposed out wide to 1 v 1 tackling and targetted as well in order to tire them out. So much of the opposition game plan often revolves around attacking them. In the past they could be hidden. Peter Sterling was even put at fullback to stop teams getting at him. At the end of the day, a halfback is normally going to be a possible point of weakness in a teams defence.

Shaun Edwards. I think there are two versions. The one that made his pro debut and was protected by playing wing was a very poor tackler. The Shaun Edwards that evolved was very effective and a much better defender. I think in everything he did Shaun read the game as well as anybody we have had. He was brilliant at seeing what the opposition were doing and rushing up and even out of the line which I know is technically wrong to stop attacks. Edwards and Clarke together were brilliant at this. his tackling got better but his speed of thought meant he could ambush attackers superbly.

[cpwigan]

Fielden one academy player I like as a defender (his attack is poor alas) is Neil Holland. He comes up with some huge hits.

[demt82]

Flash you can not justify your comments because on watching the game, i totally agree with martin taylor in the fact that O'loughlin's tackling technique is extremely poor and he could have given away at least 7 swinging arms, of which i could gladdly point out which could have resulted in repeat sets of six for salford.

Hindmarsh is recognised as the best defensive tackler in NRL, plus his weight of 17 stone allows him to tackle in that style as against 14 stone O'loughlin who gets knocked back by the opposition.

For the record, a salford player is a good friend of mine and he mentioned that O'loughlin was pointed out as a weak link in the wigan defence by karl harrison.

[GeoffN]

demt82 posted:

For the record, a salford player is a good friend of mine and he mentioned that O'loughlin was pointed out as a weak link in the wigan defence by karl harrison.

I bet Harrison is embarrassed over that comment now!

[cpwigan]

If Harrison mentioned lockers he must be off his head. Players can only take in so much information or carry out so many instructions. It does not take rocket science to know that Dobson should be target 1 and Rads should be target 2 (due to his fitness levels being less than everybody else). Personally, I would target Fecka with footwork players too.

[DaveO]

Likely_Lad posted:

So how come he makes it work against the bigger players week in week out then?

He doesn't, that is the point. He is getting penalised regularly and could be penalised more often which is what a big part of the discussion is about. Watch who he tackles well using this technique and watch where it doesn't quite come off.

Re Danny Orr, he has superb technique for his size and is very good in midfield defence. However, to me, he always looks vulnerable defending his own line when the bigger guys are running at him. I know this is only to be expected but it surely takes him out of the equation for 'best defender'.

The title of the thread is ...best tackler...

But then Hindmarch being 17 stone isn't going to do a Rads special and put in a great cover tackle haveing chased someone down is he? So does that rule him out of being the best defender?

IMO if you want to talk about best defender then it has to be in relation to the poiition they play. You can't have the same expectations of a smaller player defending the line as you would a big forward just in the same way you can'texpect 17 stone forwards to defend against wingers like a fullback.

Orr is a virtually faultless defender in the way he goes about it for a man of his size.

Dave