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Brian McTigue wrote:How on earth did we beat Wire away given how poor Mr Dave and Ian B think Wigan are. How on earth did the Wigan forwards dominate Wire tonight when both teams started the match fresh for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes are you really getting a fair comparison? Wigan could have won a game they did not deserve to win tonight and only lost it by 7 v a so called brilliant Wire team. They did that with 40% 2nd half completion, with several players missing and several players still in the early stages of returning from injuries. Wire had to win tonight. This man seems to sums it up pretty well
http://www.wiganwarriors.com/WContent.a ... 016&type=1
Oh ye of little faith

read my post properly i said they were poor tonight not when they beat them away and they seem to put pressure on but then cant turn it in to points.The completion rate was poor but that's the teams fault isnt it?.

cherry.pie wrote:

MrDave wrote:In the words of the Hives "I hate to say I told you so", Wigan cannot win the big matches and will not win anything this season, not even the league.

Wigan were bullied by Warrington but also failed to take advantage of their opportunities. Also taking the two points shows that Wigan do not value their territorial advantage.

A full strength Wire pack vs us without Coley, McIlorum, O'Carroll and then Mossop out for most of the second half and yet we come within a few inches (Farrell almost scoring and Carmont just stepping in touch) from turning the game on its head doesn't seem too bad to me.

Well I am going to say I told you so as well because I said without Coley if Maquire would not play Feka we would get beaten in the pack and we did.

Now I am sure Feka isn't up to Maquires standards in some ways but he remains a SL standard player and the alternative of not playing him isn't working either.

It's all right having your principles about what players must be able to do and I am sure the young players can train their backsides off compared to Feka but against a big pack like that having so many in the side is not going to work. So it isn't all down to bad luck we were missing those players you mention its about the bad selection of expecting inexperienced and not physically mature players to match up to a top pack.

We are now in a position where if either Coley or Fielden are unfit or not available we don't have a pack to compete with the best because Feka may as well not be here.

When you consider Tuson and Farrell were on our bench and Solomona and Wood were on theirs it was a superb effort from Wigan. Yes we made mistakes, but the players stood up well.

Do you think Solomona would get into our side? I don't because he's as much as Madge type player as Feka is. He's not that mobile, he looks overweight but he was plenty big enough to tire our lot out.

We didn't need to have such an inexperienced bench and to say we made mistkaes is an understatement. The teams handling was garbage for 65 minutes. Virtually all their tries came form field position gifted to them by poor ball retention.

I thought Wire were going to hand it to us on a plate but after they stopped dropping it we could not keep hold.

Unfortunately one of main reasons these mistakes were made is the inexperienced pack was knackered. Even JT coughed the ball up at the end as he was shattered.

To say they stood up well is IMO ridiculous. They were beaten off the park.

We have lost all three recent big games, Leeds in the cup and Saints and Wire at home. It's not good enough.

We may not win the league this year, but we shouldn't have been anywhere near anyway considering the squad is weaker this year than last.

It's the same squad plus Deacon and saying we should not be anywhere near masks some of the reason why we are losing against trams we beat earlier in the season one of which is Maquires selection policy which has gone some way IMO to costing us games in particular Leeds in the cup and tonight v Wire.

Dave

You clapped Mr Dave's post Ian B. Imagine if Wigan had won what would Dave O I told you so have been able to say. The merest bobble from Pat Richards no try or Liam Farrell steadying himself when Mathers stumbled and Wigan would have won and Dave O would not be carping. It makes perfect sense to have Pally on the bench with Deacon leaving you with what 2 forwards and 2 10 minute players. You could say why no Ben Davies. OR you could say that Chris Tuson and Liam Farrell played very well deserved their places but it was asking too much to expect a Wigan team with Hansen and Loughlin just returning from injury to be fresh enough or strong enough to dominate a Wire team for long enough to get a win. Interesting how Dave O will not criticise Hansen (nor would I) because it does not suit his views but that wasn't Hansen at his best tonight. Nor was it Loghlin at his best. Nor was it Roberts at his best. How many players did Wire have missing.

I do not like to complain but Dave O your disecting of other people's posts is very irritating some would say ill mannered. The quote retort quote retort is considered by some to be poor internet etiquette.

Brian McTigue wrote:You clapped Mr Dave's post Ian B. Imagine if Wigan had won what would Dave O I told you so have been able to say. The merest bobble from Pat Richards no try or Liam Farrell steadying himself when Mathers stumbled and Wigan would have won and Dave O would not be carping. It makes perfect sense to have Pally on the bench with Deacon leaving you with what 2 forwards and 2 10 minute players. You could say why no Ben Davies. OR you could say that Chris Tuson and Liam Farrell played very well deserved their places but it was asking too much to expect a Wigan team with Hansen and Loughlin just returning from injury to be fresh enough or strong enough to dominate a Wire team for long enough to get a win. Interesting how Dave O will not criticise Hansen (nor would I) because it does not suit his views but that wasn't Hansen at his best tonight. Nor was it Loghlin at his best. Nor was it Roberts at his best. How many players did Wire have missing.

great post.

Brian McTigue wrote:You clapped Mr Dave's post Ian B. Imagine if Wigan had won what would Dave O I told you so have been able to say. The merest bobble from Pat Richards no try or Liam Farrell steadying himself when Mathers stumbled and Wigan would have won and Dave O would not be carping. It makes perfect sense to have Pally on the bench with Deacon leaving you with what 2 forwards and 2 10 minute players. You could say why no Ben Davies. OR you could say that Chris Tuson and Liam Farrell played very well deserved their places but it was asking too much to expect a Wigan team with Hansen and Loughlin just returning from injury to be fresh enough or strong enough to dominate a Wire team for long enough to get a win. Interesting how Dave O will not criticise Hansen (nor would I) because it does not suit his views but that wasn't Hansen at his best tonight. Nor was it Loghlin at his best. Nor was it Roberts at his best. How many players did Wire have missing.

it wasnt the players we had missing it was the handling or lack of it and the fact they played them off the park for 20 as they did against saints and couldnt convert it in to points which concerns me and it would any one watching.I know they are in with a chance of winning the league but they have to play better than that.

Brian McTigue wrote:I do not like to complain but Dave O your disecting of other people's posts is very irritating some would say ill mannered.

It's what the quote function is for is quoting the points you want to address goes back a long way to Usenet (if you don't know what that is look it up on Google). It's considered good practice.

The quote retort quote retort is considered by some to be poor internet etiquette.

Well actually the opposite is true because the alternative is "top (or bottom) posting" which means if you want to make sure people know who you are replying to when a thread has several discussions going on, you end up quoting the entire message then replying. That is a complete waste of space and considered bad practice.

So you can either quote the bits you want to address specifically or top post or make a random comment people then say "are you replying to me".

Dave

I think the missing players and players being at their best is a huge factor Ian B. Although the younger players coming in do fantastically well they need time before they can make a huge impact at the highest level. At the moment the RL Wigan are playing is on a par no better probably worse offensively / maybe better defensively than Wire, Leeds, Saints. Remember, I said CURRENTLY. When Amos was fully fit and flying, when Lockers is match fit and so forth then there is no reason why that offensive deficiency cannot be turned around and Wigan win these matches. We have done fantastically but sport is harsh. There can be only one winner. At the moment we are not doing enough with the ball in hand. Every one of the top 4 SL clubs at the moment remind me of NSW 2010 v Queensland. Masses of effort but smartness particularly under acute pressure is not at the level it needs to be and it takes umpteen tackles/repeat sets to get points on the board. It is the same Internationally.
RL to me is a game of 'bully' when you are on top you have to make it pay and mentally crush your opponents. I think as the game progressed Wire became dominant with bigger heavier forwards, a full starting line up apart from Bridge. We stuck in and oddly could have won it. Sam T set up a try with pure class and then Pat (Man of Steel this year IMO) went the full distance from a loose ball but with so many players returning from injuries recently it tells. You have to be fresh, healthy and at your best in these games. Mathers was a real weak link for Wire but in our 20 they looked more dangerous than we did and repeat sets led to scores. Given the players out and who we had just returning from injury we did well to compete, damn well.
Exciting game. Far too many mistakes to be a great game and Wire deserved the 2pts. Mentally, I don't think they are at the level of Leeds and Saints. Whether we are? Not sure. Some are, some are not (players) Fresh young players like Tuson and Farrell did well but we lacked a lot of front row grunt. Fielden got battered a few times, Prescott played hard but fatigued. Mossop still needs to step up and got injured. Sport is such a mental challenge. Not sure we are quite there yet. We need everybody fit / healthy but also playing smart. We are going through sets at the moment and not really setting enough up or testing the best teams. V Rubbish it is fine v the other top 3 we need more.
Leeds and Saints have earned the right to challenge / win honours. Ourselves and Wire still need to win a few things to be considered at the same level. That is not to say either Wigan or Wire cannot win competitions this year but mental toughness / smartness is massive.
The great Wigan teams yes they had great players but they were ruthless hard nosed professionals.
I am only repeating what Coach Maguire has said. In the next few weeks with a full team he will make the team potential GF winners. Why panic? why write Wigan RLFC off?

Brian McTigue wrote:You clapped Mr Dave's post Ian B. Imagine if Wigan had won what would Dave O I told you so have been able to say.

But we didn't and what happened was as I expected. I don't think it was rocket science or took any great RL insight to predict the pack would get beaten if it was the same one that played v Salford.

The merest bobble from Pat Richards no try or Liam Farrell steadying himself when Mathers stumbled and Wigan would have won and Dave O would not be carping. It makes perfect sense to have Pally on the bench with Deacon leaving you with what 2 forwards and 2 10 minute players. You could say why no Ben Davies. OR you could say that Chris Tuson and Liam Farrell played very well deserved their places but it was asking too much to expect a Wigan team with Hansen and Loughlin just returning from injury to be fresh enough or strong enough to dominate a Wire team for long enough to get a win. Interesting how Dave O will not criticise Hansen (nor would I) because it does not suit his views but that wasn't Hansen at his best tonight. Nor was it Loghlin at his best. Nor was it Roberts at his best. How many players did Wire have missing.

The criticism is not of individual players but of the fact we had too many inexperienced ones on the pack. They all busted a gut but that wasn't the point.

Dave

Mr Dave O I wll repeat what I said and what I saw Wigan RLFC could have won tonight. One error/mistake rectified and Wigan RLFC won. At Warrington away the one error/mistake was made by Wire so your negativity and lack of belief in your own team/players beggars belief and was incorrect. Your assumption that somehow the experienced players made the difference does not stand up because Wigan full of those players could have lost quite easily at Wire. The margin between victory and defeat is very small. If you stand next to a busy road and say there is going to be a crash often enough then you will be right at least once. It does not make you a soothsayer.