REFEREES ???????

[cpwigan]

Well ultimately our downfall is down to ourselves but yes he was hopeless. Anybody notice the arrogant git waved when the crowd booed him before the second half started.

KK is a symptom of a much bigger problem whereby edicts are continually being issued and nobody has a clue what is happening. You were told try to play the ball with your foot, now you must play the ball with your foot. You were told if a teammate joined an attacker in the tackle it was an automatic held, now it seems it is not, Fletcher was told he did not get the ball stripped because it was a loose carry yet when the Cas player got the ball stripped by Fletcher in a loose carry it was a penalty. So yes KK, is hopeless, Gerry Kershaw is hopeless but then again so is Cummings!! More worrrying so are we

[DaveO]

cpwigan posted:
Gerry Kershaw is hopeless but then again so is Cummings!!

(I heard Cummings on the Rl hour on thursday and he makes Tony Blair and David Cameron sound sincear.

He is awful and why he ever ended up where he is I don't know. I am absolutly convinced Russel Smith's deciding to go to Aus was made very much easier by Cunnings being appointed to his current job.

Dave

[cpwigan]

If anybody wants to know how bad Cummings was as a referee just take a look at the old Wigan Season Review Tapes. Dam he was truly awful.

[yokozuna]

Not an excuse for our performance, or the result, but the officials were appaling tonight.

There was one call that KK got right, a forward pass that travelled a good 5 yards forward. Teh touch-judge, a few feet from the action didn't flinch at all. KK had to give it. Surely the 'merry flag-waver" is there to do just that?

Then there was the video ref's decision on Moran's touchdown. Pryce touched it first, then he must have judged that Calderwood knocked it on. First knock on was by Pryce, so when the try wasn't given why didn't we get the ball?

There were plenty of other poor refereeing decisions, but they were overshadowed by our poor play. Summed up at the end, when they couldn't even be arsed to form a scrum in time to get the ball in play and at least try to level the match.

Bloody depressed now...

[robjoenz]

yokozuna posted:
There was one call that KK got right, a forward pass that travelled a good 5 yards forward. The touch-judge, a few feet from the action didn't flinch at all. KK had to give it. Surely the 'merry flag-waver" is there to do just that?

Sorry, but you're incorrect. The touch judge isn't meant to flinch, he is only allowed to give a signal to the referee if the referee makes definate eye contact with him and then the signal for a forward pass is to place his flag against his chest. I think that Kirkpatrick gave that without consulting the touch-judge, so he did nothing wrong.

Then there was the video ref's decision on Moran's touchdown. Pryce touched it first, then he must have judged that Calderwood knocked it on. First knock on was by Pryce, so when the try wasn't given why didn't we get the ball?

I think the video referee must have deemed that Calderwood knocked on and that Pryce didn't touch the ball. Personally I think that the ball was knocked on by both players which should have been a goal line drop out.

I usually try and do my best to understand why a referee has made decisions he has made but I didn't half struggle tonight. Kirkpatrick didn't seem on his game at all, usually he is very confident (sometimes appearing over confident, verging on the arrogant) but he seemed like his mind was somewhere else. I could not for the life of me understand his decision to allow offsides to slip, usually he's very strict. As a result of offsides at some points were only making 30 m in 5 tackles, it was the same for both sides.

I couldn't understand why he didn't penalise the dangerous throw on Hargreaves, I think he got it right when he penalised the attempted throw on O'Loughlin though.

I actually think he got the Calderwood incident wrong. I rewatched the game when I got in and the Cas player was looking at the ball all along, he didn't go to hit Calders. Had Calderwood not been there he would have caught it. Calderwood jumped very high for it and landed unfortunately, it looked a lot worse than it was and a knock on should probably have been awarded.

[DaveO]

robjoenz posted:
I couldn't understand why he didn't penalise the dangerous throw on Hargreaves, I think he got it right when he penalised the attempted throw on O'Loughlin though.

Good post and I agree with what you say but the bit above sums it up for me. When you are down you need all the help you can get and the Hargreaves incident really did annoy me.

The funny thing is about KK's performance tonight was that he rarley went to the video ref and refs are often criticised for doing that too often. Alas its a pity he didn't do it more often!

Dave

[waterside glens]

don,t know about that .the video ref stopped moran,s try when the evidence was inconclusive in which case the benefit of doubt must go with the attacking team

[Fraggle]

DaveO posted:
The funny thing is about KK's performance tonight was that he rarley went to the video ref and refs are often criticised for doing that too often. Alas its a pity he didn't do it more often!

Dave

The one that got me was the Cas try that the video ref was asked to look at. I've no gripes at all about the grounding, it's perfectly ok, but from I could see of the screen I'm still not convinced the ball was played properly. Yet KK has been the strictest at enforcing the foot-touching-the-ball rule, penalised us for it early on, yet didn't even ask the Video Ref to look at that.

And quite why it took him 68 minutes to call a forward pass I do not know. The first Castleford set of 6 leading to their try had a forward pass as blatent as the one he finally gave at the end of the game, but it was allowed (and many more) and we quickly found ourselves 6-0 down.

One or two other basic errors, things like stopping and starting the clock, were frustrating as well. Higham scores, Richards goals, KK starts slowly ambling back to halfway with the Cas team even slower. Having stopped on the way for a drink, KK finally stops the clock when he realises the restart is being delayed. Then, right at the end, he should have called time-off because our pack was ready for the scrum at the end. I seem to remember from the commentary of the Wakefield cup match that if one team is ready to pack down and the other team are still mooching around trying to waste time, that the clock should be stopped. Ok, 2 seconds isn't likely to make a difference, but no, KK's not interested and instead it's straight off the pitch faster than any of our players moved all night.

We were poor tonight, and didn't deserve to win, but I'm convinced we should have had a draw if it weren't for KK.

[Fraggle]

yokozuna posted:
Then there was the video ref's decision on Moran's touchdown. Pryce touched it first, then he must have judged that Calderwood knocked it on. First knock on was by Pryce, so when the try wasn't given why didn't we get the ball?

Pryce is facing his own line, so that's play-on. I thought the replay showed the ball change direction a little bit off Calderwood, which is a knock-on. Without having the chance to watch the game on tv again, I have a feeling that was the right decision.

[cpwigan]

Re; the Pryce / Calderwood incident.

Pryce made contact with the ball first, knocking on and the ball then made contact with Calderwood. So for those who believe Calderwood knocked on, it should have been a double knock on WHICH means it should not have been a Cas tap on the 20 but possession back to Wigan. VERY POOR on Kershaws part.

The ball did go forward from Calderwood after Pryce lost it BUT it was a case of ball playing the man. When that happens in the tackle (time and time again we see play waived on and invariably the tackler has punched / palmed the ball down) If the ball played the man it is play on. Chuck in benefit of the doubt too