Re: goulding gone

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
slimshady
Posts: 738
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:04 am

Re: goulding gone

Post by slimshady »

Whelley Warrior wrote:
slimshady wrote:
Whelley Warrior wrote:

DaveO, If you think IL is no good, why is it that when he appear on the pitch for the resigning of Joel, he was met with a massive round of applause and cheering by the MAJORITY of our supporters. Were you around in the seventies when we were actually a poorly run club under people Gostellow and Baxendale and had teams full of poor players.

Every club makes mistakes, but at Wigan we make more good signings than bad and it is why our club has been and always will be the most successful club in thew history of the game. As for many players leaving each season, that is because we sign so many good youngsters, we cannot keep them all and some go to other clubs. Like Paul Cullen once said, Wigan keep the best and other Coaches pick up the scraps, the Widnes club being a current example The same happens at Leeds on the Yorkshire side where many of their cast offs end up at other clubs.

As for Orrell RU, what are you on about when everyone in Wigan knows that the demise of the club occur with Whelan and Lindsay when they pulled the financial plug on them as a result of the RFU would not allowing the club into their Premier League as they already had one representing the North West in Sale RU in Manchester. Suggest you speak to any member of that Orrell RU club before you accuse them of anything to do with its demise and loss of their ground. Dez Seabrooke in particular, if he is still around.

Finally, if you think that Wigan is so badly run under IL, I hate to think what you your opinions would be if we were a club like Wakefield, in and out of administration all the time.

No wonder good posters like Kittwazzer have thrown in the towel with some of the petty moaning that is rife on here!

Orrell RU were bolloxed before Whelan got involved he actually bailed them out after years of mismanagement and trying to compete with the southern clubs with big money backers. They gave players cars and payed former RL players and Union players like Austin Healey large sums trying to get into the top division. When what they should have done is concentrate on what they new best, maybe then they would still own their ground instead of playing out of a pub and on St John Rigby. They were the architects of their own downfall but love to blame Whelan, Lindsey and RL in general. Yes Whelan saw an opportunity and paid every member £1000 for their share of the club, he didnt force them they took his money. The got what they deserved.
Why then, did Whelan have plans for Orrell RU to play at the DW Stadium in the Premier League of that code?

He and Lindsay pulled the plug when the RFU made it clear that Orrell would never be allowed to play at the top level of the Union game representing the North West.

And before you mention about members of the Orrell club snatching the hand off Whelan with the offer of £1000 for their memberships, it may interest you to know that our own shareholders did exactly the same thing when he also offered £1000 for every £1 share with the result that he gained control of our club far too easily and with it, control of the the assets which included the balance of around 50% of the Tesco money after the debts had been paid off.




Yes they did plan to use what was the JJB stadium mainly due to the fact that Orrells own stadium was not upto scratch to cater for any decent crowds, Orrell had already sold part of the ground for housing by this point to help pay the players they had.
What else could DW do when the RFU said Orrell wouldnt get into the top flight, they didnt have a fan base so gate receipts were poor so he would have been pouring funds into a money pit with no chance of a return.
I know that Wigans members sold their shares but he put money into Wigan and got a return, we didnt do too bad from his input. If he hadnt got control where would Wigan be now, in my opinion we wouldnt be anywhere near the position we are now.
menpond
Posts: 676
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: goulding gone

Post by menpond »

Who at the club decides what a player is worth salary per year going forward? What is the balance of power between IL RADS and SW? BECAUSE those decisions are crucial in a Salary cap system? The club did not rank Goulding as first or second rank,according to some posters on here,so in that sense he was out. Personally think that was correct on Clubs part,and time will tell to some extent. BESTS
mp
slimshady
Posts: 738
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:04 am

Re: goulding gone

Post by slimshady »

menpond wrote:Who at the club decides what a player is worth salary per year going forward? What is the balance of power between IL RADS and SW? BECAUSE those decisions are crucial in a Salary cap system? The club did not rank Goulding as first or second rank,according to some posters on here,so in that sense he was out. Personally think that was correct on Clubs part,and time will tell to some extent. BESTS
Their is no balance of power, IL is in charge end of!
SW or Rads can probably ask for certain players or suggest what players are worth but owd tight arse keeps control of the purse strings.
Dobby
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Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:38 pm

Re: goulding gone

Post by Dobby »

slimshady wrote:Their is no balance of power, IL is in charge end of!
SW or Rads can probably ask for certain players or suggest what players are worth but owd tight arse keeps control of the purse strings.
Correct
User avatar
TrueBlueWarrior
Posts: 6171
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 10:17 pm

Re: goulding gone

Post by TrueBlueWarrior »

Dobby wrote:
slimshady wrote:Their is no balance of power, IL is in charge end of!
SW or Rads can probably ask for certain players or suggest what players are worth but owd tight arse keeps control of the purse strings.
Correct
...there has to be a person with a final say, rightly or wrongly otherwise it would become very messy!
'If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them.' - Wayne Bennett
Owd Codger
Posts: 5628
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:20 am

Re: goulding gone

Post by Owd Codger »

cpwigan wrote:
Spion Kop wrote:
cpwigan wrote:On reflection Daz Goulding had his own reasons for leaving and Wigan could not stop him doing so.
I think him leaving is a combination of 2 factors. He had some amazing offers from elsewhere and at 26 this is probably his big contract. At best he will get one more good one. I certainly dont blame him for going. From what I gather I think that Wigan probably took it for granted that he will stay for okayish money, as he has always done. However he was offered way more money at several clubs than he was currently on at Wigan, or offered again by Wigan. You certainly dont move 2 hours away to Hull unless there is a major incentive, they outbid Salford even. I was also told that Saints tried to sign him but he said he couldn't play for them after being at Wigan for so long. He has always turned down offers from elsewhere in the past and stayed at Wigan for less money for obvious reasons i.e being a Wiganer and to win trophies. He has won it all now though, played for his country and now is the time to set himself up for after Rugby.

I was also told that by the end of talks and the way he was treated he wouldnt have stayed anyway no matter what Wigan offered. Dont forget often players have been through this time and time again at the club and get sick of it. I think when he made the comments about feeling wanted and it being a good feeling to have and being reignited moving to another club spoke volumes really.
There was some truth in what you say but some major inaccuracies. The way Daz was treated was irrelevant. To the contrary, he was treated impeccably. It was Daz decision and as you rightly allude he was made an amazing offer by Hull KR. Never heard the Saints suggestion.
cpwigan, you are wasting your time as some never want to listen to truth!
Owd Codger
Posts: 5628
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:20 am

Re: goulding gone

Post by Owd Codger »

slimshady wrote:
menpond wrote:Who at the club decides what a player is worth salary per year going forward? What is the balance of power between IL RADS and SW? BECAUSE those decisions are crucial in a Salary cap system? The club did not rank Goulding as first or second rank,according to some posters on here,so in that sense he was out. Personally think that was correct on Clubs part,and time will tell to some extent. BESTS
Their is no balance of power, IL is in charge end of!
SW or Rads can probably ask for certain players or suggest what players are worth but owd tight arse keeps control of the purse strings.
Any different than when the real tight arse Whelan was in charge. At least we now have some decent players which was not the case when he held the purse strings.
cpwigan
Posts: 31247
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:03 pm

Re: goulding gone

Post by cpwigan »

Whelley Warrior wrote:
cpwigan wrote:
Spion Kop wrote: I think him leaving is a combination of 2 factors. He had some amazing offers from elsewhere and at 26 this is probably his big contract. At best he will get one more good one. I certainly dont blame him for going. From what I gather I think that Wigan probably took it for granted that he will stay for okayish money, as he has always done. However he was offered way more money at several clubs than he was currently on at Wigan, or offered again by Wigan. You certainly dont move 2 hours away to Hull unless there is a major incentive, they outbid Salford even. I was also told that Saints tried to sign him but he said he couldn't play for them after being at Wigan for so long. He has always turned down offers from elsewhere in the past and stayed at Wigan for less money for obvious reasons i.e being a Wiganer and to win trophies. He has won it all now though, played for his country and now is the time to set himself up for after Rugby.

I was also told that by the end of talks and the way he was treated he wouldnt have stayed anyway no matter what Wigan offered. Dont forget often players have been through this time and time again at the club and get sick of it. I think when he made the comments about feeling wanted and it being a good feeling to have and being reignited moving to another club spoke volumes really.
There was some truth in what you say but some major inaccuracies. The way Daz was treated was irrelevant. To the contrary, he was treated impeccably. It was Daz decision and as you rightly allude he was made an amazing offer by Hull KR. Never heard the Saints suggestion.
cpwigan, you are wasting your time as some never want to listen to truth!
True but it is wrong and people need to understand that Daz is very happy and the club behaved impeccably.

There are not many who have left without their own reason and it is not the club wanting them out. At the same time the likes of Rocky and George have been give enhanced deals etc.

The real issue is for me how the RFL run SL/RL and the impact of the NRL (rather than union). Leeds seem to be 'magicians' when it comes to the salary cap.
morley pie eater
Posts: 3582
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 2:01 pm

Re: goulding gone

Post by morley pie eater »



cpwigan wrote:Of course Morley would have realized that the crowd cheered Gilly because he was a Wigan legend and he had been interacting with the crowd on the day, pretending to cry etc. I remembers fans cheering some amazing RL, I remember a fantastic coach adapting how his team played to make the most of Gene Miles talents. It was never boring, it wasn't even boring when we put 50 on Bradford a week or two later.

Some fans want to wave a white flag and say yes you put your body on the line and deserved more but we cannot afford to. Sound like mill / mine owners exploiting child labour. Alternative we can say how can we make this fantastic sport even more marketable so companies / the media / general public want to pay enough for it to get even better and become the sport it should be and pay players what they deserve instead of telling them they are living the dream and should be grateful.

Did you ever take industrial action Morley to get a better salary / final pension despite being told by the powers that be we can not afford it :wink:
I largely agree, CP. The added factor with your union/management analogy is that there are 3 sides here: players, clubs/owners, plus fans. As a fan, I'm on the player's side - they absolutely deserve more. But nothing is that simple, and my point is that, as things stand, the game can't afford to pay players what they're actually worth. As a fan, the survival and growth of the game are pretty vital too!

Medium to long term, I hope RL can grow and generate more income to increase the salary cap. In the meantime, looking at things from a club owner's point of view, I understand the policy of having a big squad, mostly on modest pay and reluctantly accepting a relatively high turnover of players who can earn more elsewhere. I'm not saying I like it when we lose the likes of Sam, Mossop etc, but that I understand the club's policy and, as long as we're competing for trophies and given the current state of RL/NRL/union, it's hard to argue that they've got it totally wrong given the current realities.

I'd also repeat that I would have a 10 team league with a higher cap and improved quality,competitiveness and intensity of games. Only clubs with proven effective youth development need apply.

Would we have cheered Gilly's try so enthusiastically if it was a match-winner for Bradford? IMO it was like a Mexican wave on an afternoon session at cricket: the match is over, let's entertain ourselves!
Wigan ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Saints ⭐⭐⭐
cpwigan
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:03 pm

Re: goulding gone

Post by cpwigan »

Totally agree it is never as simple as we would like it to be re salary but I do think in simple supply and demand terms the supply of players is insufficient to meet demand. So a smaller SL makes sense but even then the NRL is seeking players and we currently cannot compete unless we 'cheat'. Wigan do not 'cheat'.

It almost becomes a chicken / egg which came first argument. I think RL needs to speculate / invest to then reap some dividend. A handful of silver shared by umpteen clubs changes nothing and will actually be totally unproductive.
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