What is the truth

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Powell may be fit soon, I guess? If he is, I would drop McIllorum and play another prop.

Not only are you are obsessed with playing one hooker you would be daft enough to drop McIlorum who is a far better hooker than Powell will ever be.

DaveO, I would hazard a guess that every single post Exiled adds to this forum no matter what the subject he somehow manages to get MM in the content, maybe secretly he does love him because he is certainly obsessed with him.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Trouble is its easy to get things confused with Powell

Powell is a half back who covered hooker and has done extremely well in covering that role. However that does not make him an extremely good hooker.

Micky when fit will still be one of the top hookers in the league and its unfair to compare Powell and him judged on this position.

Sam has run his blood to water for Wigan and he has played well for us in what was an alien role. Given a few more years as a hooker (if thats how he sees himself now) he may become one of the better hookers in the league but for now he is not as good in that position as a fit Mickey Mc.

I would say Powell is now around the standard of Logan Tomkins, good enough to be in a team in the role, but he isnt going to be getting the england 9 jersey for example anytime soon, thats no disrespect to Sam just how it is

Wait till Exiled reads that.......

Another great post WF1985!

[Exiled Wiganer]

I think that's harsh, tbh, but each to his or her own.
My point is a narrow one, which I am "obsessed" about. The team does better when it is able to roll props on and off. That is how we won the GF and the WCC. He may only be as good as Logan T, but 80 minutes of Logan T is better for our team, which relies on relative short bursts from its props, than having to play 2 hookers. I am only "obsessed" with it because it has worked so well for us. If the positions were reversed, and McIllorum were the 80 minute player and Powell the 40 minute one, I would take his side.
It isn't an irrational dislike of him as a player, and indeed whenever he plays I will cheer myself hoarse for him, as I do every player who puts on the cherry and white. It is to do with the balance of the side.
Incidentally, powell was players' player of the year last year, so I am not alone in being a fan of his.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

I think that's harsh, tbh, but each to his or her own.
My point is a narrow one, which I am "obsessed" about. The team does better when it is able to roll props on and off. That is how we won the GF and the WCC. He may only be as good as Logan T, but 80 minutes of Logan T is better for our team, which relies on relative short bursts from its props, than having to play 2 hookers. I am only "obsessed" with it because it has worked so well for us. If the positions were reversed, and McIllorum were the 80 minute player and Powell the 40 minute one, I would take his side.
It isn't an irrational dislike of him as a player, and indeed whenever he plays I will cheer myself hoarse for him, as I do every player who puts on the cherry and white. It is to do with the balance of the side.
Incidentally, powell was players' player of the year last year, so I am not alone in being a fan of his.

So have we not or did we not win any trophies while MM has been a '40 minute hooker' as you put it?

[jao711]

Why would we want to play SamP or MM for 80 mins? Look what it's done to James Roby ,they've run into the ground.KC saw that and signed Tommy Lee.

[Wigan_forever1985]

I think if you asked Micky Mac there is no way he see's himself as anything less than an 80min player, fitness may not have allowed him to complete that but its not unknown for coaches to use the 2 hooker system to exploit lazy defenders at the ruck bringing on a fresh hooker just before opponents change their props or towards the end of a game can pay dividends. Tony smith uses a tactic of keeping Dwyer till the last quarter of a game sometimes to speed up the ruck. We saw when shorrocks was fit Sam spelled with him

Sam rightly won players player of the year because it was a colossal effort from him to play that role for an entire season, but there again the praise was on his effort and commitment, while he hasn't done a bad job, the award was recognition of the job he did in a foreign position and his effort. Awards like an international cap/dream team place would of been more ability focused awards.

To be honest i think are in a good situation and it doesn't need to be a MM vs SP, I'm against 4 props on the bench i think its short sighted in a game were injuries are now common place, a utility player like SP is gold to have on the bench he could be for us what richard whiting was to Hull. I would always opt for 1 back and 3 forwards bench i think it gives you greater ability to change things if needed.

[Exiled Wiganer]

We have won with our 40 minute hooker, as have lots of other teams. And I have been there every time we have done, and usually toasted McIllorum - who will ever forget his destruction of Saints and Wire at Old Trafford?
But, as with everything in our game, the key is getting the best out of the players we have. If we had a Peacock at prop, who could do long minutes, then we would be in a different position, but we have to rely on FPN and Tautai (even more so, without Clubb and Flower). They can be very effective in short spells, and much less so (particularly in defence) in longer ones. For this squad, at this time, we have strong evidence that having an 80 minute hooker gives sufficient rest for the props we have on our books to lay the platform for victory.
We can sign 2 James Grahams, and then play Powell, McIllorum and Ganson at the same time for all I care.

[Wigan_forever1985]

We have won with our 40 minute hooker, as have lots of other teams. And I have been there every time we have done, and usually toasted McIllorum - who will ever forget his destruction of Saints and Wire at Old Trafford?
But, as with everything in our game, the key is getting the best out of the players we have. If we had a Peacock at prop, who could do long minutes, then we would be in a different position, but we have to rely on FPN and Tautai (even more so, without Clubb and Flower). They can be very effective in short spells, and much less so (particularly in defence) in longer ones. For this squad, at this time, we have strong evidence that having an 80 minute hooker gives sufficient rest for the props we have on our books to lay the platform for victory.
We can sign 2 James Grahams, and then play Powell, McIllorum and Ganson at the same time for all I care.

Im not sure i buy that, i mean you get ten interchanges, so assuming that you use a 2 hooker system and you change them once per half you have 8 interchanges left for your forwards. Thats swapping 2 of them twice per half that means they would only have to play 20mins in total across 2 spells which im sorry but all of our props are capable of.

Only FPN doesnt seem capable of big minutes I think benny/clubb/TT/Sutton can all put in 20+ stints in one go

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Stop talking sense WF1985, free from agenda!

[TrevorNorleyHall]

Obviously they did not win but Widnes having two hookers nearly turned defeat to victory v Warrington this week. The rebirth of Wigan was based on Mac and Piggy cobining for 80 minutes. Cameron Smith is probably the only hooker that can give 80 minutes at the highest level week after week. Perhaps the key is having two hookers that offer different strengths for 80 minutes. Cunningham and Roby proved that as did Mac and Piggy.