TrueBlueWarrior wrote:But Mike the discipline procedures should have been sorted out years ago, they have been inconsistent for a long time, the Flower incident just highlighted it further and if problems had been sorted along time ago the Flower incident would have been managed better. How long do the people that can actually demand change wait for? Till Flowers ban is up? Give it another season? Till the cows come home?
CHANGE IS NEEDED NOW AND THE PEOPLE THAT CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT SHOULD BE DOING EXACTLY THAT, INFACT THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE A LONG TIME AGO!!
several chairmen have spoken up about the RFL disciplinary this season so there is some evidence that a stance will be made soon.
However, can you not accept that if IL had made that stand now he'd have been a lone voice and the other chairmen who have the same issues would not have backed him?
They would not have backed him because they would be accused by many that they too were condoning BF's actions. We'd then have been left with what happen during this seasons "revolt" which was with people saying "Wigan are only interested in themselves" the RFL would then have remained unchallenged on this issue for a long long time.
My post clearly says it should have happened along time ago, the Flower incident just highlighted that it is getting worse not better.
I understand what you are saying about being a lone voice it needs support from everyone but like any huge change or revolt it is usually one voice that starts the ball rolling.
'If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them.' - Wayne Bennett
TrueBlueWarrior wrote:But Mike the discipline procedures should have been sorted out years ago, they have been inconsistent for a long time, the Flower incident just highlighted it further and if problems had been sorted along time ago the Flower incident would have been managed better. How long do the people that can actually demand change wait for? Till Flowers ban is up? Give it another season? Till the cows come home?
CHANGE IS NEEDED NOW AND THE PEOPLE THAT CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT SHOULD BE DOING EXACTLY THAT, INFACT THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE A LONG TIME AGO!!
several chairmen have spoken up about the RFL disciplinary this season so there is some evidence that a stance will be made soon.
However, can you not accept that if IL had made that stand now he'd have been a lone voice and the other chairmen who have the same issues would not have backed him?
They would not have backed him because they would be accused by many that they too were condoning BF's actions. We'd then have been left with what happen during this seasons "revolt" which was with people saying "Wigan are only interested in themselves" the RFL would then have remained unchallenged on this issue for a long long time.
I don't understand yours or Mikes stance if Wigan complain they will look bad? all depends on the complainant that is made if they are saying LH got off scott free then I don't see how they look bad if they arnt complaining about flowers ban then how are they condoning his actions.
Transparency and accountability. You need to work towards increasing both. Then you have a more and more consistent system. That's what I would do.
You would rewrite rules that are not being applied consistently.
NO, I said the first step is to have rules / guidelines that work. If something is garbage your idea only creates something that is consistently garbage. 1st step surely is to get the correct procedures in writing 2nd step educate all 'partners' or is that too logical?
But the question I think Mike is asking is how do you get to that being done what is your way to make the RFL do it?
TrueBlueWarrior wrote:But Mike the discipline procedures should have been sorted out years ago, they have been inconsistent for a long time, the Flower incident just highlighted it further and if problems had been sorted along time ago the Flower incident would have been managed better. How long do the people that can actually demand change wait for? Till Flowers ban is up? Give it another season? Till the cows come home?
CHANGE IS NEEDED NOW AND THE PEOPLE THAT CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT SHOULD BE DOING EXACTLY THAT, INFACT THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE A LONG TIME AGO!!
several chairmen have spoken up about the RFL disciplinary this season so there is some evidence that a stance will be made soon.
However, can you not accept that if IL had made that stand now he'd have been a lone voice and the other chairmen who have the same issues would not have backed him?
They would not have backed him because they would be accused by many that they too were condoning BF's actions. We'd then have been left with what happen during this seasons "revolt" which was with people saying "Wigan are only interested in themselves" the RFL would then have remained unchallenged on this issue for a long long time.
I don't understand yours or Mikes stance if Wigan complain they will look bad? all depends on the complainant that is made if they are saying LH got off scott free then I don't see how they look bad if they arnt complaining about flowers ban then how are they condoning his actions.
Of course they'd look bad!!
"we're not complaining about Bens' ban but you know that bloke he sparked and then chinned when he was nearly unconscious? Well he didn't get a long enough ban."
can't see how anyone would have a go at IL or Rads if they'd said that.
sheepsteeth wrote:
several chairmen have spoken up about the RFL disciplinary this season so there is some evidence that a stance will be made soon.
However, can you not accept that if IL had made that stand now he'd have been a lone voice and the other chairmen who have the same issues would not have backed him?
They would not have backed him because they would be accused by many that they too were condoning BF's actions. We'd then have been left with what happen during this seasons "revolt" which was with people saying "Wigan are only interested in themselves" the RFL would then have remained unchallenged on this issue for a long long time.
I don't understand yours or Mikes stance if Wigan complain they will look bad? all depends on the complainant that is made if they are saying LH got off scott free then I don't see how they look bad if they arnt complaining about flowers ban then how are they condoning his actions.
Of course they'd look bad!!
"we're not complaining about Bens' ban but you know that bloke he sparked and then chinned when he was nearly unconscious? Well he didn't get a long enough ban."
can't see how anyone would have a go at IL or Rads if they'd said that.
Is it a lie? Is it incorrect? Did it not happen? Was it against the rules? Was the ban long enough?
So why would they look bad saying it?
'If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them.' - Wayne Bennett
Transparency and accountability. You need to work towards increasing both. Then you have a more and more consistent system. That's what I would do.
You would rewrite rules that are not being applied consistently.
NO, I said the first step is to have rules / guidelines that work. If something is garbage your idea only creates something that is consistently garbage. 1st step surely is to get the correct procedures in writing 2nd step educate all 'partners' or is that too logical?
But the question I think Mike is asking is how do you get to that being done what is your way to make the RFL do it?
I said where I would start and how. Mike is trying to build a house without doing the necessary ground work / foundations.
It matters not to be honest, 99% of RL fans are quite happy with what happens season after season so there is no reason to even try to make things better. Remember, not one complaint or grumble from any of you. Your compliance in 2014 negated your right to complain in 2015 and beyond.
cpwigan wrote:
I said where I would start and how. Mike is trying to build a house without doing the necessary ground work / foundations.
Please say it again - i didn't catch it.
You want to change the guidelines (which are not being applied consistently already). But i don't see anywhere where you have said how or why that will happen.
Do you mean we can achieve that by Wigan complaining to the media now in isolation?
I'd say you are trying to argue for a solution without doing the groundwork - and I have proposed exactly what the groundwork and timing should be.
TBW - stating that thing should have changed in the past doesn't get us a long way forward now does it? What shall we do - fly round the world backwards really fast or get a police box? We are where we are and crying about the past isn't going to help us improve things.
cpwigan wrote:
I said where I would start and how. Mike is trying to build a house without doing the necessary ground work / foundations.
Please say it again - i didn't catch it.
You want to change the guidelines (which are not being applied consistently already). But i don't see anywhere where you have said how or why that will happen.
Do you mean we can achieve that by Wigan complaining to the media now in isolation?
I'd say you are trying to argue for a solution without doing the groundwork - and I have proposed exactly what the groundwork and timing should be.
TBW - stating that thing should have changed in the past doesn't get us a long way forward now does it? What shall we do - fly round the world backwards really fast or get a police box? We are where we are and crying about the past isn't going to help us improve things.
Mike, accepting the present isn't going to help us move forward either!!
'If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them.' - Wayne Bennett
cpwigan wrote:
NO, I said the first step is to have rules / guidelines that work. If something is garbage your idea only creates something that is consistently garbage. 1st step surely is to get the correct procedures in writing 2nd step educate all 'partners' or is that too logical?
But the question I think Mike is asking is how do you get to that being done what is your way to make the RFL do it?
I said where I would start and how. Mike is trying to build a house without doing the necessary ground work / foundations.
It matters not to be honest, 99% of RL fans are quite happy with what happens season after season so there is no reason to even try to make things better. Remember, not one complaint or grumble from any of you. Your compliance in 2014 negated your right to complain in 2015 and beyond.
You miss understand me there was no criticism in my question I agree we should be complying about the lack of consistency I have read the threads and have seen your suggestions for improvement but not how we try to get try those imprisonments made, ive written and complained to the RFL over the lack of consistency but dont expect a reply.
I've been considering writing to the trade press this weekend for the Monday papers.
The basis is the media comments about the BF and other issues surrounding discpline or a lack of it.
Paul Heywood ( a soccer journo) wrote in yesterday's i newpaper and opened with the Westwood/Green incident from last year's GF. He says that nothing was done and Silverwood used the On Report which Heywood described as a cop out after the Warrington player hit a man who could not defend himself.
Andy Wilson wrote about the start of this year's first weekend when St Helens Soliola took outwarrington's M Monaghan. Both attempts to win a game by nullifying the opposition's playmaker by thuggery.
So this season started where the 2013 ended with a thug taking out the oppositon's playmaker.
From the first round 2014 to the last when we had Paul Wood trying to win a game by stopping Wigan's momentum following a try, he decided to have a fist fight with the nearest player which happened to be Eddie Pettybourne.
The following night St Helens' Walmsley put his shoulder/collar bone into his opponents head and deliberately concussed Luke Robinson who could not continue in the game. Another Thug taking out the oppositon playmaker.
Then the 2014 GF, it started with Masoe not attempting a legitimate tackle on Gelling but a swinging arm intended again to injure his opponent by concussing him. Another thug trying to advantage his team by thuggery.
Then came the Lance Hohaia incident, with the Saints player racing 25 mtrs to smash his elbow into Ben Flower's jaw.
Etc.
I won't go on as that's enough. Suffice to say my real complaint will be against the Match Officials, Match Review Panel and the Discipliary committee.
We have to start somewhere.
That seem the most likely place for mew to start.
