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He said that although their policies were well meaning they were in many cases not enforceable, for instance if the owner of a club decides to employ relatives or friends of a player through one of his other companies it need not be disclosed to the RFL and they had no way of finding out other than relying on the honesty of people.

The RFL cannot have access to tax records or bank accounts for anyone who is not employed by a club and cannot investigate the accounts of other companies.

I said I could see no reason for doing this because it would not be profitable because the financial rewards on offer in RL were not great enough. His answer was that no one owned a rugby league club to make a profit, many, but not all, did so for the sake of their own ego and probably because some of them liked to take risks and try to bend rules to their own benefit it was all part of their own game.

He did not name names or point fingers but talked a lot of sense. Incidentally he said he had read Mike Gregory’s book and thought he was kind to DW !!!

Sorry problem with fingers and brain not working together.

I was sat with a guy at Espanyol yesterday who is retired but used to be a senior partner at one of the worlds big accountancy firms and also happens to be a Bradford Bulls fan. Anyway strangely enough although we were watching a footy match the conversation turned to RL. I wont go into his views on Nobby but he had some interesting things to say about the RFL and how they “audit” clubs.

He said that although their policies were well meaning they were in many cases not enforceable, for instance if the owner of a club decides to employ relatives or friends of a player through one of his other companies it need not be disclosed to the RFL and they had no way of finding out other than relying on the honesty of people.

The RFL cannot have access to tax records or bank accounts for anyone who is not employed by a club and cannot investigate the accounts of other companies.

I said I could see no reason for doing this because it would not be profitable because the financial rewards on offer in RL were not great enough. His answer was that no one owned a rugby league club to make a profit, many, but not all, did so for the sake of their own ego and probably because some of them liked to take risks and try to bend rules to their own benefit it was all part of their own game.

He did not name names or point fingers but talked a lot of sense. Incidentally he said he had read Mike Gregory’s book and thought he was kind to DW !!!

emperorkel wrote:Sorry problem with fingers and brain not working together.

I was sat with a guy at Espanyol yesterday who is retired but used to be a senior partner at one of the worlds big accountancy firms and also happens to be a Bradford Bulls fan. Anyway strangely enough although we were watching a footy match the conversation turned to RL. I wont go into his views on Nobby but he had some interesting things to say about the RFL and how they “audit” clubs.

He said that although their policies were well meaning they were in many cases not enforceable, for instance if the owner of a club decides to employ relatives or friends of a player through one of his other companies it need not be disclosed to the RFL and they had no way of finding out other than relying on the honesty of people.

The RFL cannot have access to tax records or bank accounts for anyone who is not employed by a club and cannot investigate the accounts of other companies.

This still does not explain why if it was so easy to get around Wigan under Mo and DW didn't carry on as if nothing had changed once the flat rate cap came in.

We also have a chairman now who has said several times since he has been here we do not have room under the cap for players. What difference does it make if we have room or not if he can just employ a players spouse in his software company?

The problem with the idea of doing this is that it is clearly against the rules so despite the fact your accountant friend thinks it's impossible for the RFL to audit he is ignoring the fact that sooner or later the truth would most likely come out.

I said I could see no reason for doing this because it would not be profitable because the financial rewards on offer in RL were not great enough. His answer was that no one owned a rugby league club to make a profit, many, but not all, did so for the sake of their own ego and probably because some of them liked to take risks and try to bend rules to their own benefit it was all part of their own game.

My view has always been running a club to make a profit was not the aim. Nice if it does but I agree with your friend on that. What I don't see though is the people who own the clubs like IL flouting the rules for kicks. Most of the chairmen of the top clubs are big businessmen who really can't afford to be seen to be dishing out back handers if the truth ever came out. I am sure they will all bend the rules as much as possible but to actually make payments in contravention of the salary cap rules is a lot different than that.

Dave

I would take it the chairman is a top end tax payer. To slip a 300k wedge would cost him a huge sum more. Then it could not be cash, Money Laundering regs. It would then be investigated by customs re VAT fraud and PAYE for cashers. Cash is not that easily hidden in a business. They don't have to see it to know it existed and they expect you to be able to show where it went. Tax man is catching up on shoddy practices and will want his wedge. You can't find it he will invent the figure and charge you on that,
Jim

Dave

I think the important comment he made was that there are certain owners who place their own ego above all else. I agree that some will not break the rules, IL seems to me to be a fairly honest kind of bloke who wants the club to be run properly and in a way which wont cost him a lot of money. This may be because although he has wealth on paper he does not have cash to throw away.
However there are others who wont care about breaking rules and who probably wont care about being found out some time in the future, so what if they are what can the RFL really do. The club will be affected but the individual will sit back and say at least we won this or that trophy when I was in charge but he cannot be prosecuted or struck off as a director of all his other businesses.
In all walks of life there are people who don’t really care about rules and constantly look for ways of breaking them, I once had dinner with a guy who was worth £170 million and at the end of the meal he argued about paying for a 70 pence cup of coffee, eventually after the manager agreed to wave the charge the guy left a £20 tip for a meal which cost £50 it was a game to him, it did his ego good to win the argument it was not about money.
The guy I spoke to on Sunday was not someone I knew prior to then but we got together because we spoke English better than Spanish, I did check up on him yesterday with some people I know from when I had my own business and he is who he said he was. What he said may be pie in the sky but he certainly sounded convincing.

emperorkel wrote:Dave

I think the important comment he made was that there are certain owners who place their own ego above all else. I agree that some will not break the rules, IL seems to me to be a fairly honest kind of bloke who wants the club to be run properly and in a way which wont cost him a lot of money. This may be because although he has wealth on paper he does not have cash to throw away.
However there are others who wont care about breaking rules and who probably wont care about being found out some time in the future, so what if they are what can the RFL really do.

If they get found out in the future, which I think they would eventually, the RFL would be the least of their worries.

Slipping people brown paper bags with wads of cash is illegal as income tax and N.I. is not being paid if the I.R. deem them wages which they would.

Giving a player various benefits in kind are also taxable so not declaring them is also illegal.

Paying family members for jobs in other companies owned by the chairman is not illegal but is against the salary cap rules and is hardly something that can be kept secret.

Bradford's salary cap breach down to Iestyn Harris was because of a companies very tenuous connection to Bradford who paid him money. I think they had been employed as decorators or something by Bradford or paid for an advertising hoarding at the ground. Something like that anyway and they were done for it.

The club will be affected but the individual will sit back and say at least we won this or that trophy when I was in charge but he cannot be prosecuted or struck off as a director of all his other businesses.

He can do so in jail for illegal tax avoidance!

Dave

Dave

I don’t think I said anything about backhanders or illegal payments. What I was told was that friends and family have been employed quite legally in other businesses and Tax and NIC paid. They have not had real employment and payments to them formed part of the agreement with certain players. The only rule it breaks is the salary cap and even then it could only be deemed to be against the spirit. He also mentioned that Wigan had not been snowy white in the past but I don’t think he liked DW very much
His main point was that RFL audit process is not that professional and there is a limit to information they are able to get

Tell you what guys Moimoi is having a great game,whoever signs him will be getting an enforcer of the top quality. Hang on dont we need someone like that?

centralparkfore ver wrote:Tell you what guys Moimoi is having a great game,whoever signs him will be getting an enforcer of the top quality. Hang on dont we need someone like that?

Those three stone wall tackle were summat else.
Its just a pity Mozza and Fui Fui are in the same team, and not facing off against each other.

And now rumoured to be after Eastmond (todays SUN)
How can they do that???