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thegimble posted:
.... and player quality from the NRL has been on the whole poor. Doris was responsible for brining in most if not all of them.

Do the names Steve Renouf, David Furner, Matty Johns, Craig Smith, Adrian Lam and Brett Dallas ring any bells?

I know we have had some less successful players but even Ainscough picked up a cup winners medal!

So to slag off ML for poor recruitment since SL started isn't exactly fair is it?

Dave

WNAC, where does all the homophobic hatred come from?

You came on this site purely to attack Dennis Betts saying that we had to replace him with Ian Millward or someone of similar quality. The club did this and then you immediately turn you attention to the man that employed him.

In all of your posts I have never seen you say anything positive about Wigan Warriors. The only thing that you seem to have any passion for is criticism, predictions of relegation and trying to start arguments. I like a bit of healthy debate - endless rounds of backslapping don't interest me one bit; but even when the team has won through adversity - you moan that we were lucky and didn't deserve to win.

I get the feeling that you would be much happier if the club folded - so that you could dance about telling everyone "I told you so". If this isn't true then what do you want? Would ML's departure make that much difference? All of the top clubs chairmen have pretty big egos.

I have an inkling that you have met ML and have a non rugby reason to dislike him

You're not Graeme West on Dianabol are you?

thegimble posted:

we_need_a_coach posted:

First, anyone who says that they 'like' Doris needs to make sure that they keep their backs close to the wall on nights out !
Second Doris is very cute, IM was the only person who could fit the Wigan criteria when Betts ****** up, therefore it was a Hobsons choice type of descision.
Betts has now gone, and if Doris had the 'balls' he would have gone long ago, he just waited for IM to do his dirty work for him, Doris is not the correct type of person to front our club, it's supposed to be a macho 'blood and thunder' sport, not a meetin place for girl guide lookalikes, (he even sounds like a girl guide) the mans an embarassment to our sport !
The current behind the scenes activity will not be seen untill next March / April I just hope it is Doris who goes, and not IM.

But we know Doris, nothing is ever his fault, he always has a scapegoat on the payrole, hope IM 'watches his back' !

Had a nice holiday then WNAC or have you stoped taking the tablets.

Doris during his previous stinit he had done a good job but we had not have any real competion when we went full time pro. Look at Chelsa now they will dominate everything for a while until they get some real competition and can financially keep up.

They say never go back and in Doris's case i think the saying is true. We have had a new coach almost every 18 months since SL has been up and running. Weve won fewer trophies and player quality from the NRL has been on the whole poor. Doris was responsible for brining in most if not all of them.

But he can get away with it by getting rid of a coach. Now in his second run at the club weve won .

1 GF
1 CC

7 coaches
1 Chairman.

Now i think if we struggle next year then it should be:

2 Chairman.

Here here.

Yes we might have had good signings like Renouf, Dallas, Smith and Lam. But can you say that Mo was responsible for those. Just like we can't blame him for all bad signings. BUT he has had a dealing in all of those. 7 coaches might have had a dealing in good players and so Mo might have too. But Mo has been there for every single bad player while those 7 coaches have been changing.

Just look at the signings before IM.
Fletcher and Logan. 31 and 29. Not anything to rave about.

Since IM came we got ourselves Richards, Calderwood, Paleasina, Higham all 25 and below. Fletch and Logan with those other 3 are good signings as they are place fillers till others grow in experience. But alone its not good.

DaveO posted:

thegimble posted:
.... and player quality from the NRL has been on the whole poor. Doris was responsible for brining in most if not all of them.

Do the names Steve Renouf, David Furner, Matty Johns, Craig Smith, Adrian Lam and Brett Dallas ring any bells?
I know we have had some less successful players but even Ainscough picked up a cup winners medal!

So to slag off ML for poor recruitment since SL started isn't exactly fair is it?

Dave

They certainly do Dave. They were all - Dallas apart (possibly)- way past their best when we signed them. Signings like those doesn't take talent - just a willingness to pay over the odds.

DaveO posted:
So to slag off ML for poor recruitment since SL started isn't exactly fair is it?

Dave

I'd say it was. I agree with jimmy on this one - Dallas apart, none of the others (so far) have had the impact of, say, Lyon or Vainikolo.
At the end of the day, it's the results that count, and the fact (oops, sorry) that we've won virtually nothing in the last 10 years must say something about his recruitments (both domestic and overseas).

At the end of the day, it's the results that count, and the fact (oops, sorry)
[/quote]

The minute he comes back...

MrsLam posted:

At the end of the day, it's the results that count, and the fact (oops, sorry)

The minute he comes back...

Couldn't resist...but for once I find myself agreeing with him!

jinkin jimmy posted:

DaveO posted:

thegimble posted:
.... and player quality from the NRL has been on the whole poor. Doris was responsible for brining in most if not all of them.

Do the names Steve Renouf, David Furner, Matty Johns, Craig Smith, Adrian Lam and Brett Dallas ring any bells?
I know we have had some less successful players but even Ainscough picked up a cup winners medal!

So to slag off ML for poor recruitment since SL started isn't exactly fair is it?

Dave

They certainly do Dave. They were all - Dallas apart (possibly)- way past their best when we signed them. Signings like those doesn't take talent - just a willingness to pay over the odds.

So you are going to ignore the fact that each and every one of those players was, at the time they were signed, equal to or better than any other player in their position in SL?

It wasn't that long ago that Mo was being slagged off for letting one of those players who you say are past their best leave. Craig Smith.

He can't win can he? He was wrong to sign him but then he should have kept him!

Furner was fantastic and went on to play two more years at Leeds. Clearly not past it.

Lam was the best scrum half in SL bar none. Renouf the best centre at his time here.

Dallas, I don't even need to mention. The only question mark from that list is Johns and I defy anyone to say they were not excited about him coming over.

People mention Lyon as an example of the type of player we should sign and ignore the fact the only reason he is here is because he was in dispute with his Aussie club and they prevented him playing for another NRL side.

It is ridiculous.

Dave

SiY posted:

Yes we might have had good signings like Renouf, Dallas, Smith and Lam. But can you say that Mo was responsible for those.

Of course you can! After all he was supposed to be a dictator wasn't he? It was supposed to be Mo that did all the signings and its only now that Millward has taken over.

If his total control of the club was a fact, then it you have to give him credit for the good sigings he made because only he can have signed them.

Just like we can't blame him for all bad signings. BUT he has had a dealing in all of those. 7 coaches might have had a dealing in good players and so Mo might have too. But Mo has been there for every single bad player while those 7 coaches have been changing.

So what you are saying is all the bad signings are Mo's fault but all the good ones prior to Millward were down to the various coaches?

You can't have it both ways. If you want to slag Mo off for bad signings pre-Millward you have to give him the credit for the good ones.

It is pretty obvoious reading comments like yours that some people have an almost pathalogical hatred of Mo and will try and blame him for everything bad at the club and credit everything good to someone else.

At the end of the day he is in charge at the top and if you think things like the recent improvements in marketing, the youth set up, the appointment of Milward and a new back room fitness staff have nothing to do with him just who is pulling the strings? DW is busy at Latics and not interested so we are led to believe.

Just look at the signings before IM.
Fletcher and Logan. 31 and 29. Not anything to rave about.

I seem to recall the signing of Fletcher being greeted as one that would bring much needed experience to the club.

As to Logan, he was signed on 9th July 2005. Millward joined the club on 23rd May 2005 so had almost two months in charge BEFORE Logan signed. Plenty of time to put a stop too it if Mo signed him and Millward didn't want the player. Conversley maybe it is Millward who signed him given how long he had been in charge.

Either way Millward either agreed with the siging or actually signed him so you can blame him for signing a 29 year old.

But what about Pat Richards. He was signed 13 days after Millward was appointed and it was annouced by Mo on his return from Australia so clearly it was Mo who signed him. How old is he?

Since IM came we got ourselves Richards, Calderwood, Paleasina, Higham all 25 and below. Fletch and Logan with those other 3 are good signings as they are place fillers till others grow in experience. But alone its not good.

You have your fact wrong on who signed who so I am afraid the above does not stand up.

As to place fillers while others grow isn't that exactly what we need? A couple of experienced players like Fletcher for two years while the younger players gain more experience?

While it might be nice to appoint a 28 year old Aussie international for hs experience there is a salary cap and such players just won't come these days.

Dave

I agree with this point, two very big agos! If they are left to do their own jobs then we are a-okay. However, Millward should be the one who decides which players to buy. When Jack Robinson was at Wigan he did most of the sighnings, and they were good. When he left and Doris did that job we ended up with players like Florimo, Clinch, Reeber etc...
Need i say anymore... Maurice's strength in negotiating to bring the players and luring them. Milward's job is to recognise which players he wants Mauire to talk to.