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the problem with players has not just come overnight,its been coming for a couple of years,..for my money ainscough was a great centre,hodgson is not.....we have had no decent stand off since paul,and the current half backs bring a mr florimo to mind....the props are too old and the only young one is not good enough ..you say where can we get players from,well i thought we had a scouting system ,dallas is slowing with age whereas other teams manage to find marcus bai,volcano,etc,we persevere with him..need i go on because i could find a negative in every single player ..only rads,carney,mick cass,and faz are good enough to play for a great team like wigan should be

Perhaps you have your standards set too high Pie Man and are comparing now to the glory days? It's cos of the salary cap and whilst its there them days won't return.

i'm not going back that far,just to when faz,rads cass and co were coming into the side..sorry if u dont agree but the kids coming in now are not a faz,cass or a rads

I totaly agree! The kids that are coming in now are just not up to the standard as they uased to be at! Rads,Faz and cass are top quality and that is not the matter enymore! I also think it helps that you were brought up in wigan and lived in wigan most of your life it makes the kids more enthusiastic about there game!

I carnt believe you guys one little whino comes on here who has probably just started supporting them...or only goes when there winning and leave early when there not can get you saying weve had it already...do me a favour I live in Leeds and all I hear every year its the year of the Rhino and what do they do every time its a big game to win a trophy or get them to a final..crumble...half the Leeds lot that I know dont know anything about rugby and thats the half with the Leeds shirts...after last fridays performance from them with a full strength squad Id rather be a pie eater looking forward to injuries coming back than loosing them as the season goes on

scuse me redhead,am i the one little whino..if ur gonna dig at someday please name him....if it is me,then just for the record .i used to stand on central park when i could barely see over the hen pen wall watching...boston,ashton,holden,sullivan,mctigue,barton etc,..so i'm hardly a new supporter and i have plenty to compere the present lot with ,and yes i still go to games and i went when we were bad in the 70's,early 80's respect ur elders

pie man how do you know im not older? and I didnt say every whino fan because I obviously dont know them as with all other supporters of teams just going on the ones I know who quite happily admit they dont know the players from other teams or positions etc they simply compare everything to Leeds win a couple of games and theyll win everything hear it every year. Whereas I like to wait a few more matches before I get too excited about a final

the pie man posted:
the problem with players has not just come overnight,its been coming for a couple of years,..for my money ainscough was a great centre,hodgson is not.....we have had no decent stand off since paul,and the current half backs bring a mr florimo to mind....the props are too old and the only young one is not good enough ..you say where can we get players from,well i thought we had a scouting system ,dallas is slowing with age whereas other teams manage to find marcus bai,volcano,etc,we persevere with him..need i go on because i could find a negative in every single player ..only rads,carney,mick cass,and faz are good enough to play for a great team like wigan should be

We'll have to agree to disagree, cos we're obviously watching different teams. Ainscough didn't have a clue where his winger was most of the time, and his positional sense was suspect to say the least. Hodgeson wipes the floor with him defensively, although he's far from perfect. Can't disagree too much about Henry Paul, but I can't agree about the props. IMO Pongia has been a revelation, a big hitting impact player who can also throw the ball around and kick if necessary, we've not had that in a long time.

The scouting system can't really be criticised, I doubt there are the same number of kids available nowadays. All the clubs are professional, which wasn't the case when Faz, Rads etc were coming through. Soccer has never had a higher profile so I'd imagine there are more kids playing that than before, and even kick'n'clap will be making inroads into the numbers once available to the Cherry and White. The man behind the youth system has been universally praised for what he did at Leeds, and the Wigan players are GB internationals in their age group so Dean Bell must be doing something right. If our kids are not good enough, everyone else's are worse.

Vainakolo may well have ended up a Wigan player if Happy Frank had stayed in charge, that was now't to do with Dallas' form although the way he suffers injuries is disheartening. I'll admit I'd forgotten about Marcus Bai, a player I'd long admired in the NRL and well done to Leeds for getting him. But I stand by my earlier comments about contracts and availability. We didn't have any resource available for bringing new players in this year except for a stand-off since we got rid of the previous one last season. Dallas is probably on a much cheaper contract than Bai, and the salary cap is a major consideration. Players can be criticised, but just thinking it's easy to get rid of one or two, bring some big-name players in and everything will be alright is really not very sensible. It may have been the Wigan way once, with unlimited money and only us being professional, but the sport has moved on.

the pie man posted:
scuse me redhead,am i the one little whino..if ur gonna dig at someday please name him

Pie Man, chill a bit. I'm pretty sure Redhead was referring to Buck Rogers from the 16th Century who started the thread 4 pages ago being a Leeds troll trying (and succeeding!) to wind people up.

If people keep on argueing. Rob will block it. Then we will not be able 2 talk about this. An we will have to start off another topic on the same thing.