Contract Chaos

[Sutty]

So what is it you actually want: Wigan-born players, or non-Wigan born players like Mozza?

To be honest, I think this period of difficulty is leading to a lot of chaotic thinking by some Wigan fans.

On one hand people are furiously demanding that we bring through the Academy lads, yet on the other they're calling for a new props to be signed, even though two of our current rotation props are ex-Academy.

We can't have it both ways.

I don't know whether we've signed Todd Carney or not, but perhaps we ought to remember that - thanks to Barrett's decision to go home early - we haven't got a stand-off for next year. This problem won't go away just because we sign a new prop. And Sam Tomkins is not the answer. He's still too young to play regularly at 6. In any case, IL dealt with that issue at the FF. He said that Tomkins would be blooded next year. Okay, some of us are choosing not to believe that, but that doesn't make it a lie.

As for TL - frankly, I can't understand the fuss. I think his erratic form and lack of inventiveness has played a big part in our problems this season. Not only that, he's compounded this by reportedly making idiotic comments about the chairman and the fans. And he's not exactly British himself. People are talking as if, in relegating TL to support-hooker, it's another Academy lad having the dirty done to him. Let's get real. TL can be good on his day, but he's no Tim Smith or Todd Carney. I thought we wanted to start winning matches. Surely at least part of the solution to that is is replacing average players with good players?

And to the guy who bushwhacked Noble last Friday, well done - you've probably made him feel even less attached to the club. I've become disillusioned with Noble, as I've said on many threads. I wish we could replace him with someone better ASAP, but getting into his face and being cheeky may have exactly the opposite effect from the one intended.

Not on here as often as you used to be. But a very constructive, concise and reasoned post, which I very much agree with.

I also agree with most of what you have said. IMO there are too many fans who think they could do a better job than Nobby or his staff, yet these fans choose to stay in their own chosen vocation. If you are so knowledgable in the building, running and success of a professional rugby team, why don't you do some coaching courses and take the plunge.
Granted there are also a lot of very knowledgable posters on here (CP, ButtMonkey, DaveO etc etc) but there are also an awful lot of people who have only ever witnessed the game from the sidelines. There is a couple who sit in front of me at the JJB and one of them is constantly moaning and berrating players, some of the comments are laughable. Yet these are the people who would have us believe that they know exactly where the coaching and playing staff are going wrong.
As much as I have tried to remain neutral in my views of which direction the team are taking, whether it be coaching methods or tactics, I have recently become more and more frustrated with what I am witnessing on the pitch. I know some of you are going to tell me it's been there for all to see for a long time, but I have always been of the opinion that the coaching staff know a heck of a lot more about the game than any of us do, as mere spectators. I have been prepared to give them time but unfortunately nothing seems to be happening.
Personally I am prepared to give Nobby one last season in 2009 to show us that he can coach and that improvements are being made, if there is still no improvement I will probably, then, start hoping that IL and JL can employ someone who can turn around the ailing fortunes of this great club and return us to the pinnacle of the sport.

I await the cries of "Sutty doesn't know what he's talking about"

[shaunedwardsfanclub]

Dave O, you are spot on mate. All good halfbacks need to play behind a dominant forward pack, ours is mediocre hence the standing of the team.

Fielding has not been the same since Mason battered him in Aus and then Radford knocked him around in the boxing ring like a rag doll - his confidence is shot at! The previous management should never have allowed the boxing bout to go forward!

Coley has no aggression whatsoever, in my opinion he is exactly what we didn't want. The best bet is to return him to Salford and free up some money under the salary cap.

Feka needs to get fit and learn how to tackle with the same forocity that he runs with.

Prescott and O'Carrol are good for the future.

Answer? Sign two new props and a second row forward. We need size, aggresion and a bit of nastiness in our make-up. The only forward who demonstrates a mean streak is Joel Tomkins.

The reason we have signed Riddell is due to the fact that we needed a player to lead the team around the park following the loss of TB. Ideally, this would have been a stand off. Unfortunately, there is a dearth of talent in this position on both sides of the globe!

At the end of 2009 we will see a number of players leave the club e.g. Bailey, Lulu, Carmont, Coley, Smith. This will free up a sizeable chunk of the salay cap, which I understand has already been invested in new imports. Sorry no names!

The young homegrown players need to be retained, it's not long since everybody was moaning about the club releasing the likes of Robinson, Aspinwall, Wild, Brown etc.

As for Noble, the best that I can offer is that he is well past his sell by date!!!!

[DaveO]

As for TL - frankly, I can't understand the fuss. I think his erratic form and lack of inventiveness has played a big part in our problems this season. Not only that, he's compounded this by reportedly making idiotic comments about the chairman and the fans. And he's not exactly British himself. People are talking as if, in relegating TL to support-hooker, it's another Academy lad having the dirty done to him. Let's get real. TL can be good on his day, but he's no Tim Smith or Todd Carney. I thought we wanted to start winning matches. Surely at least part of the solution to that is is replacing average players with good players?

I agree with your assessment of TL. I think he is over rated by a lot of fans. He has had two inconsistent seasons IMO. I think he has done slightly better in 2008 but he can (like the team) play well one week then revert to being distinctly average the next. I don't hold with the idea he is somehow in awe of Barrett either. If he can't work with a class stand off like Barrett then won't be able to work with any class stand off so that is no good.

Dave

[gillysmyhero]

So what is it you actually want: Wigan-born players, or non-Wigan born players like Mozza?

To be honest, I think this period of difficulty is leading to a lot of chaotic thinking by some Wigan fans.

On one hand people are furiously demanding that we bring through the Academy lads, yet on the other they're calling for a new props to be signed, even though two of our current rotation props are ex-Academy.

We can't have it both ways.

I don't know whether we've signed Todd Carney or not, but perhaps we ought to remember that - thanks to Barrett's decision to go home early - we haven't got a stand-off for next year. This problem won't go away just because we sign a new prop. And Sam Tomkins is not the answer. He's still too young to play regularly at 6. In any case, IL dealt with that issue at the FF. He said that Tomkins would be blooded next year. Okay, some of us are choosing not to believe that, but that doesn't make it a lie.

As for TL - frankly, I can't understand the fuss. I think his erratic form and lack of inventiveness has played a big part in our problems this season. Not only that, he's compounded this by reportedly making idiotic comments about the chairman and the fans. And he's not exactly British himself. People are talking as if, in relegating TL to support-hooker, it's another Academy lad having the dirty done to him. Let's get real. TL can be good on his day, but he's no Tim Smith or Todd Carney. I thought we wanted to start winning matches. Surely at least part of the solution to that is is replacing average players with good players?

And to the guy who bushwhacked Noble last Friday, well done - you've probably made him feel even less attached to the club. I've become disillusioned with Noble, as I've said on many threads. I wish we could replace him with someone better ASAP, but getting into his face and being cheeky may have exactly the opposite effect from the one intended.

Not on here as often as you used to be. But a very constructive, concise and reasoned post, which I very much agree with.

I also agree with most of what you have said. IMO there are too many fans who think they could do a better job than Nobby or his staff, yet these fans choose to stay in their own chosen vocation. If you are so knowledgable in the building, running and success of a professional rugby team, why don't you do some coaching courses and take the plunge.
Granted there are also a lot of very knowledgable posters on here (CP, ButtMonkey, DaveO etc etc) but there are also an awful lot of people who have only ever witnessed the game from the sidelines. There is a couple who sit in front of me at the JJB and one of them is constantly moaning and berrating players, some of the comments are laughable. Yet these are the people who would have us believe that they know exactly where the coaching and playing staff are going wrong.
As much as I have tried to remain neutral in my views of which direction the team are taking, whether it be coaching methods or tactics, I have recently become more and more frustrated with what I am witnessing on the pitch. I know some of you are going to tell me it's been there for all to see for a long time, but I have always been of the opinion that the coaching staff know a heck of a lot more about the game than any of us do, as mere spectators. I have been prepared to give them time but unfortunately nothing seems to be happening.
Personally I am prepared to give Nobby one last season in 2009 to show us that he can coach and that improvements are being made, if there is still no improvement I will probably, then, start hoping that IL and JL can employ someone who can turn around the ailing fortunes of this great club and return us to the pinnacle of the sport.

I await the cries of "Sutty doesn't know what he's talking about"

I dont claim to know more that the coaching staff,but having played open age RL for around 13yrs and also watching wigan for around 20yrs i would like to think i know a little about rugby.One thing i do know is that we are playing boring rugby and at times look clueless and these are down to the coach.

The issue with Noble might not have been put across right.But after yet another poor performance things are said out of pure frustration.The points put to him were valid.

[GeoffN]

I think that Noble is giving Mathers a new contract to snipe on Ian Lennagon.

That doesn't make sense; It's Ian that has the final say in contracts, not Brian. All Noble can do is say who he'd like to keep, sell or buy. He can't give out contracts himself.

[jaws1]

When at work we had regular meetings as a group to pick each others brains and add suggestions to make our work better even the tiniest suggestion was looked at.
Can visualise Noble at the Monday morning meeting with the players taking them to task telling them were they went wrong and what i want done to put it right what i say goes and woe betide if you do it different .Rather than the players themselves having an input into with suggestions to help the team eliminate the problems.The defence tactics are sheer rubbish we have a negative points difference maybe a little input from the players themselves can sort this out rather than Nobles tactics of one pace forward and hold and let them run at you.

[cpwigan]

I believe fans are genuinely worried about the lack of progress achieved during the current season. They are deeply disturbed by the brand of RL produced. Wigan RLFC is renowned for quality defence and expansive flowing attacking play. Professional is a word that epitomises the Wigan Way. Wigan RLFC fans are educated. They know enough about RL to distinguish with authority between good and bad RL.

The fans concerns were articulated and supported by the owner of the club.

So either, 10,000+ supporters and the upstairs staff of Wigan RLFC do not know what they are talking about and are wrong OR something is badly wrong.

Let's not kid ourselves. SL is not amazing. Yes Saints and Leeds are ahead of the rest but the rest are nothing special. However, they are physically fit, they all tend to do the basics and they all want to win. They are all beatable, VERY but if you do not match/go beyond these basics then you will lose games. You cannot cheat nor take short cuts in SL but if you do things correctly you can achive a considerable degree of success.

[cpwigan]

If you take the view that playerswere good when they came to Wigan RLFC then why are they losing form, playing poorly the long they stay here. Feka, Fielden, Barrett and many others have seemingly got worse not better the longer they stay at this club. Well sorry to harp on about it but in the good old days, the hallmark of Wigan RLFC was that when a player left he was on a downward spiral.

If players are becoming poorer, if the team is not making progress then that boils down to 1 ISSUE; THE COACHING STAFF. They are simply not good enough. You want the honest truth. NO British coach is good enough. If you want the best then you have to go to Australia because that is where they are.

I positively want to vomit when I see demented seals greeting an incompetent coach like he is some kind of God. It is totally unwarranted. It is unjustified. False praise is the worst kind of reaction possible.

Whatsmore you are praising a man who is turning this great club into a joke with his ludicrous Cullen MKII comments. A man who either lies or has conveniently forgotten the truth. Brian Noble has never built a RL team. He inherited a fabulous team / set up from Smith/Elliott and he kept it ticking over by buying in ready made players whilst neglecting the player development side of the club to leave a legacy that is FAR FAR worse than what he inherited.

10,000+ fans, the club's upstair staff, Dean Bell and many more cannot all be wrong. Brian Noble is not the man to lead this club to success.

[Doveoverdave]

He is a walking disaster. Not being very good is bad enough but he is also miss calamity and a season of this muppet getting suspending 2 or 3 times is too much.

Hock?????

[Doveoverdave]

It just makes a mockery of the claim by Noble that he wanted to keep Higham. If he had done, booting Mathers would have released some funding.

Noble looks like a liar

My reply was i hope so but i also hoped that it wouldn't be boring rugby like he had Bradford playing and we had played most of this season.He just gave me a dirty look.

If he could deliver half the trophies/finals at Wigan that he managed at bradford no speccie would care what type of rugby we were playing!

The most boring rugby in a generation was played under Graham Lowe.