Exiled Wiganer wrote:I think he can rightly point to player development and motivation as being cornerstones of his time at Wigan. He can be proud of what he has done for the club - but, his time should be up. There is no shame in that. I hope he reaches that conclusion himself, and indeed hope that any dismissal is classily done. But there is no measure by which any rational judge could conclude that he is the right person to take the club forward.
Player development? just to clarify are you talking about his time as youth coach or head coach
I can't think of a single player who has got better under wanes guidance at senior level. I don't doubt his credentials at youth level but at senior level i can't see much evidence of it.
Of all the project players we've had none have developed any more than average, gelling a typical example of a player who still players amatuerish.
I think the tragedy is that Wane loves wigan too much he wants to fix things I've no doubt about that, I'm sure he's lost sleep over how we've played this year and i bet he is hurting as much as every fan on this board. I don't doubt his commitment to the cause i am 100% sure he has done everything within his power to make us a winning team. However having desire and wanting something isn't enough as I've previously said i can run my absolute hardest but i aint beating bolt to 100m. Wane just doesn't have the talent to turn us around in the same way KFC didn't have enough talent to guide the Saints. Both fantastic players, both through and through their teams colours but if thats all you needed to be a top coach you, i or anyone else on here would be qualified
Spot on. Williams is another who has not kicked on. He's already far better than Gells anyway but has looked like a headless chicken at times this season. Where is Wane's guiding hand to get him to basically calm down and play a more measured game? He's going backwards.
Personally I think the whole team is lacking direction. For example is TL really as bad as the criticism he gets?
But to get back to the development of young players, that for me is where Wane's strength was (past tense). I think though that his closeness to those he brought through is now a handicap not an asset. It might be OK to create a family atmosphere at junior level but in the senior team he can't afford to have his mates or favorites.
He might think Gells is a character and brings some humour to the dressing room but he seems immune from criticism when other players not in the "in" crowd who are better players then he will ever be have been hung out to dry in public, Taylor and Charnley spring to mind. They may or may not have deserved criticism but the point is others seem immune from it regardless of performance and I think this stems from his closeness to certain players.
It's a cliche to say you are only as good as your last game. Under SW we have won everything possible to win, so it's wrong to say he hasn't produced the goods. But while we were very lucky last season, this one has exposed our failures.
In the first half dozen games I really thought we'd got it nailed. We played beautiful rugby and no-one seemed to be able to live with us. But just about every game cost us another injury, and then in spite of high motivation and honest endeavour, we started to lose. And sadly have continued. And the last game was 32-0. The only time I can recall we've been nilled.
Attack looked regularly clueless, and the defence leaky. Admittedly against two very good sides, but I'd like to think earlier in the season we might have defended better.
We do miss Deakin and Harris and their tactical nous. Not sure why they haven't been replaced.
It's true that the league table doesn't lie. You have to admire Cas. for what they've achieved, and achieved it playing open exciting rugby. We looked stodgy and lost in comparison. It's no good seeking excuses, we just didn't know what to do.
Another thing that doesn't lie is the injury list. Injuries will always happen, but the consistency of our long term injuries must say something about our style of play and conditioning.
So, sadly, I feel SW has had his day. Time to move on and get some new tactics, some new structures, a new attitude and maybe a couple of new players.
i think there have been some good points for and against.
I voted he should stay but needs an attacking coach.
If people think he should go fine, but let's not twist things. Players have improved under him. Not all of them but to say none in the first team is wrong IMO.
What I do agree with is his loyalty has been our undoing at times this year.
Joel IMO is finished and should be moved to the non-playing role earmarked for him.
FPN should have been dropped at various times during the season. The fact he and others weren't sends the wrong message out.
The main thing that has done for us this year is bringing Tommy back, obviously Wane worked with him previously so that was a factor but getting him and losing Smith has weakened us. I'm not saying Matty is the best player in the world but we've lacked direction and leadership at times. Matty was a key player when lockers was out last year. We've all seen the stats for when lockers has missed games, I think Smiths direction, voice and organisation have been a big miss. I also think Matty helped free George up to play a more relaxed and free game.
Again Smith’s detractors won’t have it but he was the guiding light last season when Lockers was out injured,no one is saying he was the bees knees but what he did he did well time and time again.
stevethegas wrote:It's a cliche to say you are only as good as your last game. Under SW we have won everything possible to win, so it's wrong to say he hasn't produced the goods. But while we were very lucky last season, this one has exposed our failures.
In the first half dozen games I really thought we'd got it nailed. We played beautiful rugby and no-one seemed to be able to live with us. But just about every game cost us another injury, and then in spite of high motivation and honest endeavour, we started to lose. And sadly have continued. And the last game was 32-0. The only time I can recall we've been nilled.
Attack looked regularly clueless, and the defence leaky. Admittedly against two very good sides, but I'd like to think earlier in the season we might have defended better.
We do miss Deakin and Harris and their tactical nous. Not sure why they haven't been replaced.
It's true that the league table doesn't lie. You have to admire Cas. for what they've achieved, and achieved it playing open exciting rugby. We looked stodgy and lost in comparison. It's no good seeking excuses, we just didn't know what to do.
Another thing that doesn't lie is the injury list. Injuries will always happen, but the consistency of our long term injuries must say something about our style of play and conditioning.
So, sadly, I feel SW has had his day. Time to move on and get some new tactics, some new structures, a new attitude and maybe a couple of new players.
So you weren’t at the Wakey game last season?? 62 - 0 was that final score!!
Anyone can support a team when it is winning, that takes no courage.
But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
that takes a lot of courage. #18thMan
sheepsteeth wrote:
If people think he should go fine, but let's not twist things. Players have improved under him. Not all of them but to say none in the first team is wrong IMO.
So who do you think has improved? I can't think of one. At best they have stayed the same as when they hit the first team others have gone backwards.
The fact Gelling is making the same mistakes as he was when he got into the team says it all.
The main thing that has done for us this year is bringing Tommy back, obviously Wane worked with him previously so that was a factor but getting him and losing Smith has weakened us. I'm not saying Matty is the best player in the world but we've lacked direction and leadership at times. Matty was a key player when lockers was out last year. We've all seen the stats for when lockers has missed games, I think Smiths direction, voice and organisation have been a big miss. I also think Matty helped free George up to play a more relaxed and free game.
The main thing that has done us is changing one player? I really don't think so.
I can't help feeling that, relative to the other teams, the trend over the last three years is downward. Next season, with pretty much the same squad and hopefully less injuries I can't see much improvement unless we get a new coach or he changes the style of play. Waney has never admitted that there is a problem with our style/method of play just how well the players instigate it. This bothers me as does the fact that win or lose, we've been so boring, predictable and niggly this year. Next season I can see Cas, Leeds and Hull being at least as good whilst Saints will be a bit stronger over the full season and Warrington should be much improved. If we don't improve significantly we'll miss out on the playoffs again. I think that Waney will be given another year and we'll be in a worse position at the end of the season. Does Mr Lenagan think Waney can sort things out and/or is he prepared to take the hit (in terms of attendances) whilst he waits another year? It's easy for fans like myself to state an opinion but let's not forget that these decisions affect people's livelihoods and they're not easy to make.
sheepsteeth wrote:
If people think he should go fine, but let's not twist things. Players have improved under him. Not all of them but to say none in the first team is wrong IMO.
So who do you think has improved? I can't think of one. At best they have stayed the same as when they hit the first team others have gone backwards.
The fact Gelling is making the same mistakes as he was when he got into the team says it all.
The main thing that has done for us this year is bringing Tommy back, obviously Wane worked with him previously so that was a factor but getting him and losing Smith has weakened us. I'm not saying Matty is the best player in the world but we've lacked direction and leadership at times. Matty was a key player when lockers was out last year. We've all seen the stats for when lockers has missed games, I think Smiths direction, voice and organisation have been a big miss. I also think Matty helped free George up to play a more relaxed and free game.
The main thing that has done us is changing one player? I really don't think so.
Losing smith lost us direction
losing crosby lost us size in the pack
you might not like him but losing smith was a big blow not because its smith but more we dont have anyone else leading the team around the pitch
and Tauti/Green/burgess/bateman all players who have improved under wane (not counting this season)
Charnley/Mossop are example if one who went backwards.
These are two reasons not to trust people.
1. We don't know them.
2. We do know them.
Thought about it and voted yes he should go for 1 simple reason.
We have needed an attack coach of real quality since Harris left. Deacon did ok but we were never as good going forward as we were in 2012-2013 seasons. Its an obvious move but we seem to stick with the ones we have who are simple not good enough.
Look at the attack at Cas is that down to Powell or Danny Orr or both. As Powell never real coached that at Leeds. Did not see much of Fev if any when he was there. And Cas never attacked like they do now until Orr went there.
If we make one signing this season its not a player we need we need Danny Orr or a good quality attack coach especially a half. I am not saying its Danny Orr the reason for Cas now. But both of them together, something we had under Harris and Wane and we were in 2012 and 2013 better to watch than Cas today. And Cas are exciting and great to watch.
Unless Wane and IL accept that then even if Wane is still here next season, he will not be for the next one because fans will real turn against them.
And for those who think that Wane can not coach a side to attack then explain to me
994 points 2012
816 points 2013 (we stopped playing in SL in mid July so points should have been a lot more),
834 points 2014
798 points 2015
669 points 2016
691 points 2017
So inside 5 season or so we have gone from scoring close to 900 to a 1000 points to a side that scores 700 points. If Cas can do it why can we not do it. Last season GF win just allowed this to go on.
Last 2 seasons and the decline in 2015 should set alarm bells off but nothing will change unless IL, Rads and Wane grow a set and get us a proper attack coach and not promoted ones on the basis of loyalty. If loyalty is anything to go by then I say give Max a go can not be as bad as what we have now as an assistant/attack coach.
